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herperboy
12-06-2005, 12:14 PM
Can you mix different species of Oedura or would it that not be a good idea.

Justin
12-06-2005, 02:04 PM
Bad idea

Brandon
12-06-2005, 03:12 PM
not a good idea at all. Sorry man.

Ken Bartenfeld
12-06-2005, 04:01 PM
Wonder if they would be fertile, and what they would look like...

MiCh@3L
12-06-2005, 04:47 PM
Henkel and Schmidt (1991) wrote, that O. tryoni and O. monilis are able to mate. I think many other Oedura spec., too.

But for me the hobby is something like conservation of a species and I don`t wanna be Mr. Frankstein who wanna create a new species or something like a Zombie :twisted:

Michael

Ken Bartenfeld
12-06-2005, 06:34 PM
I agree, would be neat to see what pops out though... :twisted:

Brandon
12-06-2005, 09:07 PM
there's actually be some contraversy on this board about a monilis/tryoni cross. Since the monilis, tryoni, and coggeri group all look sooo similiar their crosses would be nearly impossible to tell what was what. If people started doing this and they were released into the herp trade that would be a baaad thing.

Toyvet
12-06-2005, 11:11 PM
I despise captive bred unnatural occurring intergrades.....Take a look on KS and see what some of these people do...cross rat snakes with king snakes, etc...for what ? To sell a "pretty snake" ? This is my #1 peeve in our hobby....please dont get me started.
Greg

herperboy
12-08-2005, 12:19 PM
I didnt mean cross them, i just meant keep them in the same enclosure. As in two females from different species

Brandon
12-08-2005, 03:09 PM
still not a good idea...sorry man.

Justin
12-09-2005, 09:01 AM
I agree with Brandon.

JohnN
12-09-2005, 10:28 AM
I despise captive bred unnatural occurring intergrades.....Take a look on KS and see what some of these people do...cross rat snakes with king snakes, etc...for what ? To sell a "pretty snake" ? This is my #1 peeve in our hobby....please dont get me started.
Greg

I 100% agree with Greg, if it happens in the wild I'm kinda ok with it.

IMO and many others, keeping differen species or even sub-species together is a bad idea.

freddy81
12-09-2005, 10:07 PM
Is the same whit poisend dart frogs....D.auratus.....I know one guy that mix blue/black whit green/black auratus......Ok...the offspring was nice...but 99% off al the herps-people that was working whit dartfrogs was totaly mad...so no...please donīt mix..best regards/ Freddy Persson Drunk and happy..hhee..=)

Sarah
12-09-2005, 10:21 PM
If the two species have the same environmental requirements and are appropriately sized, what's the problem with housing two females together?

I do not agree with breeding between species (it's actually illegal in QLD anyway)however, I can't see why housing two females together has caused such a strong reaction?

Unless I've misread the post, no-one has actually given a reason why two females can't be housed together? Would love to know why this is such a problem. What problems would be encountered if two females with the same captive requirements were housed together?

:0)

Ken Bartenfeld
12-09-2005, 10:24 PM
Wow, what a controversy. I agree too...hehe! I personally don't think much would differ in the species. Curios what would happen actually *just popped in my head* if you bred some of the albinos to lets say...tryoni or something like that?

freddy81
12-09-2005, 10:40 PM
I do not hink something whil happend whit the two females...But I know something wrong whil happend if you mix female whit male of diffrent ssp....it will not be good.....yes you will get a new ssp....but no I do not think itīs a good ideéa.....so please do not try.....best regards a sleppy swidish wiking...=)

Sarah
12-09-2005, 11:26 PM
Hehehe! Poor Herperboy asked if he could keep two females together and everyone just sort of got really aggro with no explanation as to the reason why!!

I don't see what the problem would be with keeping two females together? I'm hoping someone can answer the question as would be very interested to know why. Not planning on keeping adult females together myself but it's good to know for future reference.

I was however planning on keeping 2 Levis and 2 Pilb hatchlings together for the first six months to save on space. Obviously Pilb. and Levis will interbreed without a second thought so will certainly be seperating them before any thoughts of breeding come into their little heads.

Will be getting 2 of each in a few weeks and another 2 of each in March. Was going to keep them together for the first 6 months, as I expect the Dec and March hatchlings will be different in size, so can't keep the 4 Levis and 4 Pilbs together until the March hatchlings catch up size-wise with the Dec hatchlings.

Plan is to keep the Levis and Pilb species seperate once size won't be an issue, and then seperate again appropriately once I know what gender they are.

Obviously if keeping the Pilb/Levis youngsters together is not a good idea, I certainly won't do it, and would very much appreciate views on that providing people can actually explain their opinion.

Sorry if post sounds a little tetchy, is very hot here. I get cranky when I'm hot and bothered. I think I'm going to have a shower and an afternoon nap.

;0)

Ari
12-09-2005, 11:36 PM
I definately 100% wouldnt even try to interbreed species. If someone does and it gets into the trade over in the USA then it could affect the pricing in the future. People may become scared to purchase these closely resembling species as they might not be sure its the 100% bloodline or a interbred species.

Remembering that there isnt as many Oedura in the USA compared to Australia. And if someone did cross and sold the off spring, imagine the posts or questions that may come up in say 5 years time or longer.

Also remembering what is around the world at the moment is it, and the only way to produce more is from those currently bred species.

Australia is sooooo strict, nothing goes out & nothing comes in. And if people try to smuggle wildlife out of Australia, and get caught, which they would, the fine is massive or even jail.

So dont interbreed Australian species - it will eventually drop the prices over there.

Just my opinion - not ment to offend.

Cheers

Ari

Sarah
12-09-2005, 11:40 PM
Absolutely, breeding between species is a definite no-no, but Herperboy is asking if keeping two females together would be an issue?

:0)

Ari
12-09-2005, 11:49 PM
Sarah

How are you mate? Yeh poor herpboy did just ask a question. But I dont think the responses are directed at him at all - I think its just something thats on peoples mind.

I would keep Levis & Levis Pilbarensis juveniles together but would seperate at 4-5 months just my opinion.

Reason being is that some Levis have been known to breed at 6-7 months of age. Also take me for example I purchased 3x 3 month old Pilbarensis back on August 2005, its now December and in that period of 5 months keeping them I have pumped the food into them. I have got them fully grown now at 8 months of age - and yep they are quite capable of breeding if the conditions are right but I dont want them too.

But in your situation I would keep Levis & Pilbarensis juveniles together upto say 4-5 months of age, but no longer.

I think also if it was a species that looks similar like coggeri, monillis & tryoni I wouldnt put juveniles together. Levis & Pilbarensis look so different though with patterning so I would.

Hope this helps

Ari

Sarah
12-09-2005, 11:58 PM
Going good Ari, how are you doing? Got your Marmorata yet?

Thanks for the info, by 4-5 months they should all be similar in size, so will hopefully be able to seperate the two species into 4 Levis and 4 Pilb by then.

BTW...Danny Brown offered me a pair of adult Swaini, which will be arriving next Friday. SO excited LOL!

Ari
12-10-2005, 12:01 AM
Leaf tails are great? I am running out of room at the moment.........lol

Ari
12-10-2005, 12:03 AM
Hey Sarah

You should put what species you keep in your signature area, so we can see what you keep & breed.

Cheers

Ari

Nathan Hall
12-10-2005, 12:03 AM
Oedura tryonilis or Oedura monyoni :lol:

Sarah
12-10-2005, 12:17 AM
Hehehe!!! Love your new avatar Nathan.

Ari, I did start to do that but its getting to the point that I have too many species to put in the signature. I agree though. It's good to see what people keep. You know where to go for advice LOL! Thankfully have tons of room yet, but most of it is already allocated for something or other.

V.excited about the leaf tails. He said they are breeding size now, so should breed this season. Fingers crossed!! Can't wait to see them. Pictures of one of Danny's Swaini are on www.Nephrurus.com

Have pm'd you Ari.

Can anyone clarify the situation regarding keeping females together? I know females are generally pretty amazing creatures (hehehe!), but the chances of them producing any Oedura tryonilis or Oedura monyoni without a male would be a bit too amazing, even for a female LOL!

:0)

Justin
12-10-2005, 08:31 AM
Hi Sarah, without the inter-breeding issue... Depending on the species there could prove to be stress between the females even if they are closely related species such as O. tryoni and O. monilis. There can be be inter-species agression even between females. Having said that I know people have done it and will continue to do it, but in my opinion I like to cause as little stress to the geckos as possible.

By the way I hope you're well and send me some pics of the swaini when you get them :wink:

ptenopus
12-10-2005, 06:37 PM
I've seen tryoni/monilis pretty cool, but im not about hybrids. sooo, yeah, they'll interbreed, but not a good idea.

Sarah
12-10-2005, 06:47 PM
Hi Justin,

Hope you are well too!

Yes, if there is any agression the animals should be seperated, but then I watch them closely if I introduce a new animal of the same species into a group too.

Will certainly post pickies when the Swaini arrive. He should be delivering them on Friday. Very lucky to have found a pair of adults. Well, actually I didn't find them, he contacted me and offered them. So doubly lucky!

:0)

Justin
12-11-2005, 06:51 PM
Hi Sarah, sometimes the aggression may not be physical as well, one gecko can intimidate another to the point that although it looks like they get one fine, after a while one will start to lose weight and the other will flourish.

swaini are beauiful animals, I love the Salturius complex! I can't wait to get some next year.

herperboy
12-11-2005, 08:27 PM
Are yall kidding. I love starting such controversial topics. The only reason I asked is because I really like my castelnaui but I think they are both the same sex, so i think im going to sell one. I just dont know if I want to get one to pair it up with or to get a diff species of them. I have pretty much decided that im going to get the opposite sex to pair them up.

I love the avatar Nate. D.galeatus are my favorite gecko of all time!!!