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View Full Version : Difference between Cyrtodactylus intermedius and C. pulchell



05-15-2006, 11:21 AM
Hello,

can anybody tell me the difference between Cyrtodactylus intermedius and C. pulchellus?

Perhaps number of bents?

Good bye

Rob

kenya_1977
06-15-2006, 08:29 PM
only thing that I know is more brilliant colors on the intermedius..?

Afelinus
06-15-2006, 08:52 PM
I just got through looking at 40 different ones and am only more confused.The ones sold as Puchellus that I used to see in the late 80s early 90s were always black and grey,with thin yellow lines.When I see what is called Intermedius,they are more yellow and tan.Thats all I can see,and I do reemeber something said about labrial scales counts,but am not 100% sure.

Afelinus
06-16-2006, 12:44 PM
I spoke with Leland last night regarding this subject and he mentioned that Puchellus do not have a fold or flap of skin that separates the dorsal and ventral surface along the ribcage.I do see that particular key as I have geckos that have it,and others dont.Adult animals are more easy to differentiate.

WildEyeReptiles
06-20-2006, 12:06 PM
The interesting thing, is that adults with a raised "intermedial line" have offspring without this trait, that I assume is acquired at maturity. Also, the two very distinct forms that I have seen both have an intermedial line, albeit one is very pronounced, and the other more of a decorative raised color change. The latter is what we are seeing on the market right now, 5 very large body bands, purple/grey/tan with yellow or white stripes inbetween bands and around the heads.

I dont believe there is any way these are the same species...
http://www.gekkota.com/html/c__intermedius.html

http://www.gekkota.com/assets/images/C_intermedius_male_Corell.jpg

http://www.gekkota.com/assets/images/C_intermedius_Profile_Corell.jpg

Notice the line in both - but vastly different coloring. The lines also differ in that one seems to "roll down" while the other is merely "raised."

http://www.wildeyereptiles.com/cpg132/albums/userpics/normal_DSCN6002.JPG

http://www.wildeyereptiles.com/cpg132/albums/userpics/normal_DSCN6351%7E0.JPG

Afelinus
06-20-2006, 12:26 PM
Leah,honestly after talking with Leland,I was just as confused when I went back and started looking at geckos again.Is there a reliable source of keys that we have for reference?

Leland
06-20-2006, 01:14 PM
Wow, long time no post for me on here, but I feel it in neccessary to do so in this instent. I understand where you are coming from Leah, and i've also had animals of both color you provided above and I believe they are in fact, different species. However, here is a link (may be unreliable) that shows intermedius as well as pulchellus.
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~gambl007/geckopics.htm
*I am unsure how accurate this actually is, but it's another "guide" for us. Leland

Afelinus
06-20-2006, 01:39 PM
OK,thoroughly boggled now. :roll: :roll: :shock: :shock:

Afelinus
06-20-2006, 01:41 PM
Leland,on the basis of this discussion,I hope you dont hold me to be definately accurate in what I am sending you today.

WildEyeReptiles
06-20-2006, 02:12 PM
I have no key of any kind on these two. Of course, all I really care about is that all of them that I have are the same (and they are) - calling it the right name is really just a technicality - but it does certainly bear some confusion. Like louisiadensis/irianjayaensis, quadrivirgatus/pubisulcus, elok/brevipalmatus, I guess when it all boils down to it, we have some Asian geckos :lol:

Afelinus
06-20-2006, 02:20 PM
I will take a risky position on this,but at least those others you named have "apparent differences"but youre right,they are very similar.I can tell you,on this recent shipment.there are some obvious differences between pubisulcus,theyre somewhat smaller and more colorful.I have 2 female quads here and they never turn yellow at night like the Pubi's do.Classic linear pattern also.They are bigger too.It does drive me nuts though,alot of confusion.

WildEyeReptiles
06-20-2006, 02:46 PM
I would love some pics of them. I had what I believe was a single quadrivirgatus a while back..

Afelinus
06-21-2006, 10:06 PM
Now if Leland and Shane can post some pics of their new geckos,we''ll get an idea concerning this.

WildEyeReptiles
06-21-2006, 10:45 PM
Well, I took these last night. Generally these are the most unpredictible of my cyrtos, so I handle them with extreme care and rarely - but here is my point regarding the intermedial lines (mind you, I am not arguing about this, its just my opinion that this is not enough to constitute a defining characteristic between two species)


I hope the photos come out full sized. Here you can see that the ridge is nothing more than a line of raised scales, while in the gekkota photos, there is a fleshy crease almost.


http://www.wildeyereptiles.com/cpg132/albums/userpics/DSC01279.jpg

http://www.wildeyereptiles.com/cpg132/albums/userpics/DSC01283.jpg

Next time I have all of them out to weight, I'll see what I can do for comparative photos of babies, juveniles, sub adults and adults. I've got quite a few of these to look at, all being the 5 banded type.

Afelinus
06-22-2006, 12:08 AM
Those are butt ugly :wink:

Kobe
06-26-2006, 01:52 PM
I also keeping this two sp,i think the difficult between this two geckos is the size
C.intermedius is much bigger than pulchellus

Bowfinger
06-26-2006, 08:24 PM
I have heard the opposite, C. intermedius SVL to 8.5cm, total to 19cm and C. pulchellus SVL to 11.5cm, total to 26cm.

Also counting the male pores...

C.intermedius "there are eight or ten pores in a wide-angled series before the vent, followed by a group of enlarged preanal scales, and a series of six to ten enlarged femoral scales under the upper leg. There is a skin fold between the flank and the venter."

C.pulchellus "Males have two series of four pre-anal pores in a deep longitudinal groove, connected at right angles to a series of 15-20 femoral pres."

Yeah, Marcus sells butt ugly geckos, ha ha just kidding :wink:

WildEyeReptiles
06-27-2006, 09:51 AM
Get to counting..

http://www.wildeyereptiles.com/cpg132/albums/userpics/DSCN6504.JPG

Afelinus
06-28-2006, 07:59 PM
Well,whats the verdict?I am bringing more of these guys and gals in and would really like to know what I am importing.Whatever the case,the condition of them coming in has been great.About 10 years ago,they were skin and bones,and if you got 3 out of 5 to survive,you were doing great.I wasnt importing back then,but pretty much that was the norm from just about any importer.

Bowfinger
06-28-2006, 08:41 PM
Marcus, I did notice the bad quality in the past and lower prices. You have or had a large amount to compare, it is hard to tell with just a few for myself. One thing I did read is that intermedius has a very northern range if any in Malaysia. Could you possibly have just a nice range of pulchellus to choose from?
As for the counting, I don't know what all that scientific lingo is all about, was hoping one of you college grads would take my findings and make sense of it all. If anything I could try to count them if all else fail on me :wink:

Afelinus
06-28-2006, 10:47 PM
The numbers are enough to compare,and there is no comparison.These are in great shape when they arrive.I think exporters have learned and I think my friend in Malaysia goes to extra lengths to provide healthy livestock.This next shipment will be similar in size and is actually going quite fast.I've reduced the number of Felinus I am importing,as we are having a great deal of success with captive propagation.I will be importing Felinus as new localities are collected,but those will be in small numbers also.I am looking to get more Cyrtodactylus species as we speak.Sabah and Sarawak are the targets right now.There will be some Gekko species targeted too.I will try to get pics when the shipment arrives this time.I think Leah and Jason at Wildeye will be a big help in keying out these species,so I plan on staying in close contact with them as this progresses.Most Cyrtodactylus species are really not that established in Herpetoculture yet.I hope people here understand the benefit of receiving geckos that actually will live.I would love to charge less,but do not import numbers large enough to do so,and when this all started I stated as much and have stood true to my word.Quality over quantity,because the money can be earned,but once a natural resource is gone,its pretty hard to replace.Most countries are wising up and will continue to tighten the restrictions in the Wildlife trade,and I applaude this.

Bowfinger
06-28-2006, 11:09 PM
I can vouch for the quality and service from Marcus and plan to continue doing business with him, other importers, there is no comparison :wink:

WildEyeReptiles
06-29-2006, 11:22 AM
Someday when I get a nice magnifying glass, loupe, or macro lens I'll try to count the scales.. Its too hard with the naked eye, and the geckos are too active.

Looking at the pic though, I dont see 6-10 of any kind of scale...

Blaze
08-04-2006, 12:23 PM
Hello,what do you think pulchellus or intermedius?

http://www.reptielenforum.nl/forums/index.php?showtopic=29993&hl=pulchellus

Its the last posting...

Thank you,

Blaze

WildEyeReptiles
08-04-2006, 02:30 PM
Pulchellus, in my opinion.