PDA

View Full Version : Aaron's talk



Justin
06-17-2006, 07:57 AM
Hi,
Does anyone have a transcript or tape of Aaron's talk on the New Caledonian geckos?

If so I'd love a copy please!

Nathan Hall
06-17-2006, 08:43 AM
You didn't go, so you don't get a copy :lol: I will try to get a copy soon. The lecture will blow your mind!!!

Justin
06-17-2006, 09:00 AM
LOL, Were the 30 new species all Bavayia or new genera?

GeckoFiend
06-17-2006, 09:02 AM
There are new rhacodactylus, rhacodactylus as we know it will be split up. new bavayia, new genus entirely.......

Justin
06-17-2006, 09:05 AM
No way! New Rhacodactyus as in new species or newly named? Did he have photos?

Uropl@tus
06-17-2006, 10:34 AM
Hello

If it's possible I'll be happy to get a copy too :D .

Best Regards Patrick

Preston Cook
06-17-2006, 11:51 AM
I would also love a copy!

Je_suis_le_Rhac
06-17-2006, 01:28 PM
yeah i wouldn't mind hearing it. Why isn't anyone disclosing what was said.............is it some leagal thing? I really want to know about the new classifications and species.

Stickytoe
06-17-2006, 02:42 PM
And what is the new Rhacodactylus species? Is it an already existing species complex that has now been split up, or a new species entirely?

I'm going to the Rhacodactylus symposium in October...but I don't want to wait that long to hear!

thanks,
Nicole

danscantle
06-17-2006, 03:05 PM
The papers on the topic haven't come out yet. There are ~ 20 species in the "Bavayia cyclura" complex alone. There are new species of "Rhacodactylus" in the ciliatus and chahoua complex. There is also a new Eurydactylodes species. Eurydactylodes and R. chahoua are eachothers closest relatives, and a change will be needed to accomodate this. The novel species are primarily differentiated through molecular data. The DNA shows these species have not exchanged genetic material for several thousand to a few million years (if I remember the dates correctly).

The thing about New Caledonia is the habitats are relatively constant throughout the islands, and have been so for some time. Thus there are no wild shakeups in the adaptive landscape to produce very different looking forms. Speciation on New Caledonia occurs when populations become seperated by chance events, and gene flow between them is eliminated. But, they are the same geckos from a biological/ecological standpoint. There is no reason to change, so the only characters that will be useful in differentiating them will be scale counts.

R leachianus showed no divergence between populations. When one considers the history of the offshore islands - destroyed by cyclones every 300 or so years - this isn't surprising. The offshore populations have not been isolated enough for speciation to occur. If they islands could remain intact for longer, speciation could occur. Why the different colors? If colonization is difficult then residents on a particular island should be descended from a few individuals. If polymorphisms are present in the source population then having them go to fixation in a small, offshore population is all too easy. Additionally, what we see in captivity is not necessarily what exists in the wild. The captive populations are likely descended from even fewer individuals.

Aarons extensive sampling of all geckos on the island cannot be questioned by anyone so far. There is nothing arbitrary about these changes, they are being done to reflect the evolutionary relationships. It will be by far the most exhaustive work ever done on a radiation of geckos when published.

chahoua
06-17-2006, 03:05 PM
Here's a quick summary of what's going on in Rhacodactylus. I may be an Aaron, but am NOT Bauer, and wouldn't have anywhere near the amount of information needed right now to try and sort it all out here for you. :)

R. chahoua will no longer be a Rhacodactylus and be in a new genus that will also have 2 additional new species in it. R. chahoua was found to be more closely related to Eurydactylodes, which makes sense when you start to think about it.

R. auriculatus will also be moved from Rhacodactylus, and have a couple new species. The same holds true for R. ciliatus and sarasinorum, which will be in a new genus of their own.

The only "True" Rhacodactylus are leachianus and trachyrhynchus. The change here will be elevating R. trachyrhynchus trachycephalis to full species status and eliminating the henkeli subspecies from leachianus.

I wouldn't dream of getting into the changes in Bavayia and Eurydactylodes as they are so numerous and there's no way I could remember all of it. This should help tide you over until the papers come out though. Once it does come out, we'll be over 100 gecko species in New Caledonia.

Thanks,
Aaron (NOT Bauer) :)

Justin
06-17-2006, 03:08 PM
So apart from some new Bavayia, was there any new species discovered?

chahoua
06-17-2006, 03:43 PM
So apart from some new Bavayia, was there any new species discovered?


Yes, in the auriculatus, chahoua and ciliatus complexes as well as Eurydactylodes.

Justin
06-17-2006, 03:44 PM
thanks, did he have photos?

Stickytoe
06-17-2006, 03:48 PM
Wow...lots of changes coming!

thank you for sharing the info!

Nicole

Nathan Hall
06-17-2006, 05:05 PM
There is nothing arbitrary about these changes
:lol: Thanks for the overview, Dan. I'm so glad we were able to hear that lecture. I was taking notes feverishly until I realized that I could get a copy of the article(s) and/or the presentation in the future. I was also able to grab a few of his papers at the symposium and have 300+ on cd. I think I've read all of those articles 4-5 times :) .

Now, let's see if we can get him back for the gathering next year to talk about Pachydactylus.

Dan, your girlfriend is a little hottie. What is she doing hanging with your dorky butt? BTW, thanks for getting me in trouble with the hotel :lol: That was too funny.

Nathan Hall
06-17-2006, 05:14 PM
So apart from some new Bavayia, was there any new species discovered?
Oedodura (I believe thats how you spell it) will be an entirely new genus. I wrote it down as Oedodera in my notes, but that just doesn't look right.

Justin
06-17-2006, 05:20 PM
I've seen pics of one of those before , nice looking geckos. Anything else? Any photos of brand spanking new species? :D

Nathan Hall
06-17-2006, 05:39 PM
I've seen pics of one of those before
Really? Oh, the Bavayia cyclura complex has been divided into many new species as well.

Justin
06-17-2006, 05:44 PM
Yup, here's some shots from another thread on here actually!
http://i1.tinypic.com/rti4w6.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/rti53b.jpg

Nathan Hall
06-17-2006, 05:45 PM
I didn't think he had "officially" announced it. Where in the heck is that thread? LOL!

Justin
06-17-2006, 05:47 PM
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4077&highlight=oedodera

I live to give lol

Nathan Hall
06-17-2006, 05:51 PM
These short naps are great! I even remember that thread. D'oh!

Justin
06-17-2006, 05:54 PM
Was there anything else? I'm hungry for info here! :wink:

danscantle
06-17-2006, 09:00 PM
Aaron's talk was fabulous. It was so much to soak in though, even for me, and I delve into the subject matter daily. Can't wait to see what changes he actually makes.

It would be great to have him or one of his collegues come and talk about Pachydactylus.

My girlfriend is a little hottie. I have no clue what's she's doing with a skinny geckophile. Must be the daily roofie-coladas.

Nathan, you really put on a quality program. Everyone was impressed. I'm glad to hear talk of next year - I hope it will be in Austin again!



There is nothing arbitrary about these changes
:lol: Thanks for the overview, Dan. I'm so glad we were able to hear that lecture. I was taking notes feverishly until I realized that I could get a copy of the article(s) and/or the presentation in the future. I was also able to grab a few of his papers at the symposium and have 300+ on cd. I think I've read all of those articles 4-5 times :) .

Now, let's see if we can get him back for the gathering next year to talk about Pachydactylus.

Dan, your girlfriend is a little hottie. What is she doing hanging with your dorky butt? BTW, thanks for getting me in trouble with the hotel :lol: That was too funny.

Je_suis_le_Rhac
06-17-2006, 11:22 PM
What I don't understand is why are they putting chahoua as more of a Eurydactylodes and seperating it further from ciliatus, while they can interbreed.......

Nathan Hall
06-18-2006, 12:02 AM
I'm glad to hear talk of next year - I hope it will be in Austin again!

I've already lined up our first speaker :) . Yes, it will be in Austin again.

Thanks for all of your help, Daniel. I'm so happy that things worked out in Austin for you. No matter how many times I move, Austin will always be home.

GeckoFiend
06-18-2006, 02:44 AM
I think we should close this thread in order to convince more people to go next year and hear all this stuff first hand. :D

chahoua
06-18-2006, 02:50 AM
What I don't understand is why are they putting chahoua as more of a Eurydactylodes and seperating it further from ciliatus, while they can interbreed.......


If you look at them side by side, you can see a closer resemblence between chahoua and the Eurydactylodes. If I remember correctly, they also both lay soft shelled eggs with a thin and hard calcium shell, unlike any of the other Rhacodactylus.

Basically what this means is that the chahoua complex was found through DNA to share a closer common ancestor with Eurydactylodes than it does with other geckos currently classified as Rhacodactylus.

danscantle
06-18-2006, 03:47 AM
The ability to interbreed is ancestral. The animals that constitute the Rhacodactylus/Eurydactylodes radiation speciated relatively recently and thus have not lost the ability to interbreed. Like chahoua said, DNA sequence data revealed this seemingly odd relationship.

Stickytoe
06-18-2006, 02:34 PM
Yes, and come up for the Rhacodactylus Symposium in October! :D
Aaron Bauer will be there too along with many other speakers!
I can't wait to hear all the discussions.

sikorae
06-18-2006, 05:41 PM
Wow, who would have thought chahoua is more closley related to eurydactylus, but I suppose it does make sense when they said they both lay the same type of eggs.

sikorae
06-18-2006, 05:44 PM
Sorry, how do you go about getting a copy of transcript, I would be very interested in seeing it if possible.

Je_suis_le_Rhac
06-18-2006, 07:39 PM
Sorry, how do you go about getting a copy of transcript, I would be very interested in seeing it if possible.

Same here...........

Uropl@tus
06-19-2006, 12:01 PM
....and for a moment I dreamed about the moment to have them all.... :D , but too much for me....

When will it be published ans where????

Best Regards Patrick

Duster619
06-27-2006, 03:08 AM
this sounds really good,
i would like to read or hear more.

Jan Grathwohl
06-28-2006, 07:41 AM
Does anybody know were these changes and new describtions will be published?

Nathan Hall
07-06-2006, 07:21 PM
I'm sure Daniel and Tony G. will let us know when this is published.

herperboy
07-11-2006, 07:11 PM
Nate, you didnt record the Q&A did you? I sounded like such a jack***. Yes this is my admitting to that the way I phrased the question made me sound like a...jack***. Only took me a month to admit it.

Sebastian
08-05-2006, 03:59 AM
[quote]T I was also able to grab a few of his papers at the symposium and have 300+ on cd. I think I've read all of those articles 4-5 times :) .
Any chance to get a copy of that CD ? :D



Now, let's see if we can get him back for the gathering next year to talk about Pachydactylus.
Oh yeah, IŽll definately come over then !! ;)

Sebastian

yuri
09-21-2006, 11:30 AM
Dan,

So Rhacodactylus leachianus island populations like Nuu Ami are simply 'island phenotypes' (for lack of a better expression) - like the islands pre-made designer morphs. Genetically indistinct, but can be grouped into phenotype related groups based on geography?

Yuri


R leachianus showed no divergence between populations. When one considers the history of the offshore islands - destroyed by cyclones every 300 or so years - this isn't surprising. The offshore populations have not been isolated enough for speciation to occur. If they islands could remain intact for longer, speciation could occur. Why the different colors? If colonization is difficult then residents on a particular island should be descended from a few individuals. If polymorphisms are present in the source population then having them go to fixation in a small, offshore population is all too easy. Additionally, what we see in captivity is not necessarily what exists in the wild. The captive populations are likely descended from even fewer individuals.

Aarons extensive sampling of all geckos on the island cannot be questioned by anyone so far. There is nothing arbitrary about these changes, they are being done to reflect the evolutionary relationships. It will be by far the most exhaustive work ever done on a radiation of geckos when published.

Scott F
09-21-2006, 03:54 PM
if its not too much trouble, i would appreciate a copy.
thanks

geckoling
06-22-2010, 02:52 PM
I'm curious if their are any updates on the state of the genus Rhacodactylus?

sirmaedwaseem
06-23-2010, 05:49 PM
Here's a quick summary of what's going on in Rhacodactylus. I may be an Aaron, but am NOT Bauer, and wouldn't have anywhere near the amount of information needed right now to try and sort it all out here for you. :)

R. chahoua will no longer be a Rhacodactylus and be in a new genus that will also have 2 additional new species in it. R. chahoua was found to be more closely related to Eurydactylodes, which makes sense when you start to think about it.

R. auriculatus will also be moved from Rhacodactylus, and have a couple new species. The same holds true for R. ciliatus and sarasinorum, which will be in a new genus of their own.

The only "True" Rhacodactylus are leachianus and trachyrhynchus. The change here will be elevating R. trachyrhynchus trachycephalis to full species status and eliminating the henkeli subspecies from leachianus.

I wouldn't dream of getting into the changes in Bavayia and Eurydactylodes as they are so numerous and there's no way I could remember all of it. This should help tide you over until the papers come out though. Once it does come out, we'll be over 100 gecko species in New Caledonia.

Thanks,
Aaron (NOT Bauer) :)


Yes, in the auriculatus, chahoua and ciliatus complexes as well as Eurydactylodes.

sorry im late replying but im confused
Wait a minute here
if R. chahoua is more related to eurydactylodes... then
are the hybrids fake
you know the
chahoua x cilliatus
sarasinorum x cilliatus
and auriculatus x cilliatus are fake
but what if they are in diff genus's doesnt that mean hyrbidization is impossible

Menhir
06-24-2010, 04:40 AM
but what if they are in diff genus's doesnt that mean hyrbidization is impossible
No, by no means. A detailed answer would take some time to write and I think may be a bit out of scope, so I recommend reading a bit about the different concepts of species (species problem) etc. That interbreeding thing is just one possibility and hard to prove in practice.
Species - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species)
Species problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problem)

Best,
Micha

Lance Portal Reptiles
06-27-2010, 12:07 AM
then are the hybrids fake
you know the
chahoua x cilliatus
sarasinorum x cilliatus
and auriculatus x cilliatus are fake


their not fake..i have a bunch of chahoua x cilliatus and sarasinorum x cilliatus hybrids. Their's a bunch of different animals that are hybrids and are a different genus.