PDA

View Full Version : Why so many Wild caught Geckos?



cooper01
09-15-2008, 10:26 AM
Hello, I'm a masters student in molecular zoology in the US. I have been learning about the business of wild caught animals (of all types) for several years now and have a very large question for all of us gecko enthusiasts: Why (myself included) have we for some reason turned a blind eye to the horrible capture, transport and overall care for the animals that most exporters use? I am the first to know about population and species harvest practices, its not that. I understand that some of these species are great in number where they naturally exist. Why then do we allow some of the most horrible people in the world make so much money off of the capture and sale of our beloved, in this case geckos? I may have a jaded view of the exporter. Do many of you know who you are getting your imports from? Do you know that they are good people and are treating the geckos right? Are they just exporting non threatened animals, or do they have a REAL money making side as well? Please inform me. If this is the case, that you know them, and they are ok I would love to hear that!!! REALLY! For some reason i don't think that is the case. At least give me your view of this topic. Thanks

PassPort
09-15-2008, 11:45 PM
I'm 100% against the mass collecting and importing of any species of animal. I only buy WC if I'm trying to establish a species that isn't readily available in the hobby. If the animals is available as a CB, then I'll fork out the extra cash for one.

cliff_f
09-15-2008, 11:53 PM
I'm 100% against the mass collecting and importing of any species of animal. I only buy WC if I'm trying to establish a species that isn't readily available in the hobby. If the animals is available as a CB, then I'll fork out the extra cash for one.

I pretty much have the same opinion as PassPort. Sometimes wc is needed to establish some new blood lines. But as for mass collecting of any species I am against. Wc animals are not all bad just to many are collected and that is a bad thing, IMO. If importing wc animals stopped all together it would hurt the hobby in some ways and help it in others. It juts needs to be regulated a little more.

PassPort
09-16-2008, 01:34 AM
if wild collecting was banned the demand for the entire Gekko genus (not to mention others) would go through the roof. Golden geckos would be $75 minimum for CB tokays too!

cooper01
09-16-2008, 10:23 AM
If things like Gekko have to be much more expensive, I'm willing to do that if it means that people that don't have the interest of the animal (both geckos and others) in mind have to make a different living. To be honest, its not just the geckos, its all the other animals (some threatened) that make me not like the trade. I know that where they exist naturally from Bangladesh to Indonesia, the Tokay is very prolific, but there are many other species that are not so great in number. It is also the treatmant of the animals. I just wanted to see what other people think. I'm not sure that there is a purfect solution to this problem. I hope that people will think about it more though!!!!!

DDReptiles
09-16-2008, 10:44 AM
I agree with what Kevin said. My collection is 100% CB, now some of the geckos I have have EXTREMELY limited bloodlines and are being massively inbred, not becuase I want to (as I strive to nor inbreed no matter the cost of bringing in that unrelated animal) but becuase the country they are native doesn't allow export no matter how common those geckos are. For example Phyllurus platurus while not inbred as some of the Diplodactylus, is found in peoples basements, dead on the road, etc. in Australia, yet try to get a small group to continue a viable population overseas, good luck.

Back to the topic though, I too find the conditions of most exporters apauling, I have been to a few exporters holding facilities when I was out of the country and the animals are kept like any dry good product, not live animals, if one dies, who care, they can pay a local a few bucks to get another one, they don't car for the most part. Some of these facilities have everything from reptiles to Ocelots, sloths, and other exotics all in one building (shack in some cases).

I have never bought anything from an exporter and the times I bring animals back from Hamm, I have someone who I know is going to do all they can for the geckos. Yes some occasionally die during transit, that is a risk, and I feel horrible about it when it happens (for the gecko and the customer) but when you are trying to keep "bloodlines" viable you don't have a choice sometimes.

But yeah in the end, people need to start thinking of the animals first and the money second. I see too many times at shows, dedicated breeders who have, say CB Uroplatus on their table, then 3 tables down there is some importer/exporter who have the same geckos except WC and half dead, but yet people buy from him to save like what $50-100, and you know the aniaml probably won't get checked by a qualified vet, and will probably end up dropping dead within the week. I do think some geckos need to be left alone in the wild atleast for a few years for them to repopulate a little, as some are becoming harder and garder to find in the wild.

Thanks Derek

cooper01
09-16-2008, 10:58 AM
"I do think some geckos need to be left alone in the wild atleast for a few years for them to repopulate a little, as some are becoming harder and garder to find in the wild."

Thanks Derek[/quote]

This brings up a great point, I'm embarrassed to say that I'm new enough to this trade (or don't have the money to buy some of the more expensive species) that i don't know which species are becoming inbreed, or are becoming more and more hard to find in the wild. Does the GGA do anything with population dynamics? I would be very interested to see who is getting money, if there is any being given, to make sure that we are not doing much more damage that we think we are!!! Please help with some of the species that you guys and girls might now are having problems. I would like to do some more research on them to see what is known. Thanks

DDReptiles
09-16-2008, 03:48 PM
" Does the GGA do anything with population dynamics? I would be very interested to see who is getting money, if there is any being given, to make sure that we are not doing much more damage that we think we are!!! Please help with some of the species that you guys and girls might now are having problems. I would like to do some more research on them to see what is known. Thanks


I am not sure what you are asking, regards to who is getting money?

To my knowledge the GGA isn't doing any population dynamics (do you mean in the wild or captivity?) they have really cut back as they don't get much funding.

There is a whole list of geckos having trouble, a lot of the diplodactylus, Phyllurus, Saltarius, etc. have very limited bloodlines.

Thanks Derek

PassPort
09-16-2008, 05:52 PM
....Not to mention loads of Pachydactylus, Eurydactylodes, Palmatogecko, and others.

Pachydactylus tsodiloensis is possibly one of the rarest geckos in the world inhabiting only a very small geographical area that is very very small, something like 2 city blocks.

sschind
09-17-2008, 11:52 AM
I really haven't given much thought to a response but this popped into my mind. Look what happened to the Uroplatus geckos. A few years back they all went on cites for a few months prices skyrocketed as people were grabbing all they could while they were still plentiful. Now you can find as many WCs as before and the prices are twice that of what they were. I used to be able to get Satanics for 60-75 bucks 4 or 5 years ago and they were hard to find. Now they are $125.00 and up and easier to get than ever. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, or where it fits into the discussion but Like I said, it just popped into my mind.