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aquamentus_11
06-02-2012, 08:10 AM
I've had my garg for about 2 weeks now and after some housing adjustments, everything seems to be going well. He has yet to poop, but eats CGD from a spoon or my finger and drinks whenever I mist so I'm not really worried about it. My concern is the asymmetry between his two front legs: the left one is fine, but the right looks like it's got some edema going on. It bulges and sags out over the "wrist". I looked more closely and didn't find any hint of constriction or retained shed and he let me touch it and move it around without any apparent discomfort. I broke my rule and handled him before my self-imposed no handle period was up and didn't notice any change in his gait or favoring of that side. He jumps well, seems to have normal use of the limb and the toes don't show any discoloration that I can see. I have been leaving him pretty much alone (except for changing out food and misting a few times a day), so I have no idea how long this has been going on. He seems healthy and is very active at night. He sleeps out in the open during the day. Should I be worried? Any idea what could be causing this? Pics below.

normal left foot
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac328/AQUAMENTUS11/IMG01350-20120602-0733.jpg

swollen right
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac328/AQUAMENTUS11/IMG01355-20120602-0735.jpg
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac328/AQUAMENTUS11/IMG01351-20120602-0734.jpg
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac328/AQUAMENTUS11/IMG01357-20120602-0738.jpg

aquamentus_11
06-02-2012, 08:54 AM
Since he's not eating a lot yet, I'm worried about MBD. I've got a mercury bulb with low UVB emission over the cage now just in case. I could take him to the vet if necessary on wednesday, but I have to know if people think it is necessary first.

RhacHouse
06-02-2012, 09:31 AM
Hey Nate,
Since you said he isn't eating a whole lot I personally would address this as the first stage of MBD. No worries though, it can be corrected very easily with a little patients and no vet bill. For cases like this Ive had excellent results by using Zilla brand food spray calcium supplement. Its a calcium supplement suspended in water. I simply give the animal a few drops each day. Most of the time swollen limbs can be corrected within a few weeks. Temperature and humidity directly influence feeding behavior. A daytime high around 81 and a consistent moisture level over 50% will help encourage feeding.

aquamentus_11
06-02-2012, 09:39 AM
ok great, i've been keeping him at lower temps (mid-high 70's) so i'll turn on some heat and go grab that supplement. thanks

aquamentus_11
06-02-2012, 09:48 AM
what's the best way to give the supplement? does it taste bad or can i put a drop on his nose and have him lick it off?

aquamentus_11
06-02-2012, 09:53 AM
i'll try a dusted pinhead or two tonight too

NicKtheGreeK1997
06-02-2012, 10:14 AM
So you are feeding only the CGD? It shouldn't be MBD, this food contains the proper amount of vitamins-calcium without any additional supplements. All that unless you add calcium or vitamins in the food. That would be a case of hypercalcemia or hypervitaminosis.

Anyhow, you have uvb bulb and I think it wouldn't be a problem to regulate the amount of calcium or vitamins.

The swollen limb may be the previous owner's fault. He doesn't look thin so it has nothing to do about the food. As long as he poops, he eats.

The temperatures are ok, just make sure you mist a lot at night and till the next night the humidity drops at around 50%. You want a humidity cycle every day. If the humidity drops too quickly, mist more than once when the humidity drops at 50%.

aquamentus_11
06-02-2012, 10:22 AM
i haven't found any poop, but i agree that he doesn't look too thin. i spray once at night and once in the early morning. i don't add any sort of supplement to his food, but i had been adding mashed banana and/or honey to it to try to get him to eat. this may have resulted in inadequate Ca2+ intake. i don't know, but it makes sense to me. i've never kept a fructivore before: i've always just dusted some crickets and not worried about it. 2 weeks seems like a short time in which to develop MBD...reptiles can go weeks without food and not have a problem. since i can't think of anything worse that fits this presentation, i'm just going to treat for MBD. a little sunshine and calcium isn't going to hurt.

NicKtheGreeK1997
06-02-2012, 10:33 AM
Then that's the best bet. Feed ONLY with CGD without supplements and it will heal it self. Either he is suffering from hypercalcemia or from hypocalcemia, he will start taking the proper amount of calcium and as the time goes he will be back to normal (I have no idea if the swollen limb will be ok though).

Here (http://jbscresties.com/basiccare.html) is a feeding scedule you should follow.

Also watch this:

Gargoyle gecko bad news - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkAuEOPdZI8)

aquamentus_11
06-02-2012, 10:59 AM
ok, great. thanks. he just smoked a dusted cricket, so he is definitely eating :evil:

aquamentus_11
06-02-2012, 11:49 AM
Hey Nate,
Since you said he isn't eating a whole lot I personally would address this as the first stage of MBD. No worries though, it can be corrected very easily with a little patients and no vet bill. For cases like this Ive had excellent results by using Zilla brand food spray calcium supplement. Its a calcium supplement suspended in water. I simply give the animal a few drops each day. Most of the time swollen limbs can be corrected within a few weeks. Temperature and humidity directly influence feeding behavior. A daytime high around 81 and a consistent moisture level over 50% will help encourage feeding.

paul, the only pet store around here only has fluker's liquid calcium. will that work? for some reason, i never trust fluker's stuff...

aquamentus_11
06-02-2012, 08:53 PM
Instead of buying the fluker's stuff, I just added a bit of vitamin supplement and Ca2+ powder to his CGD. I smeared it on the leaf that he's on and he ate it so maybe he just doesn't like his food on the ground. Anyway, I'll keep feeding him on his leaves like this, but I don't want to correct the calcium deficiency too quickly or overcorrect so I think I'll add the supplements to his food every other day. I'll probably feed more crickets in the next 2 weeks than I had planned for him originally just because I know he'll eat those and it's a sure way to get the calcium into him. After I get him solid again, I'll start on that feeding plan. Thanks for the help guys, I'll post pics of his progress.

RhacHouse
06-02-2012, 11:46 PM
So you are feeding only the CGD? It shouldn't be MBD, this food contains the proper amount of vitamins-calcium without any additional supplements. All that unless you add calcium or vitamins in the food. That would be a case of hypercalcemia or hypervitaminosis.

Anyhow, you have uvb bulb and I think it wouldn't be a problem to regulate the amount of calcium or vitamins.

The swollen limb may be the previous owner's fault. He doesn't look thin so it has nothing to do about the food. As long as he poops, he eats.

The temperatures are ok, just make sure you mist a lot at night and till the next night the humidity drops at around 50%. You want a humidity cycle every day. If the humidity drops too quickly, mist more than once when the humidity drops at 50%.

I'm not sure how you suspect hypercalcemia or hypervitaminosis. I'm not a vet but to my knowledge neither one of those problems has swollen joints as a first symptom, MBD does. MBD is also waaaay more common in Rhacs than either hypercalcemia or hypervitaminosis making it much more likely. Since it was said the animal may not eating enough, I find it harder to believe in an overdose of calcium/ vitamin/ minerals. I think its actually much more likely to be a calcium deficiency, or too much phosphorus. In either case I would supplement more calcium. I have experienced this very same issue on more than one occasion with purchased animals and remedied it with more calcium.




paul, the only pet store around here only has fluker's liquid calcium. will that work? for some reason, i never trust fluker's stuff...
Yeah it should be fine, the point is to get more calcium into the system and I find the liquid suspended calcium is more efficient. A few drops every day and you know hes getting the extra calcium for sure.

cricket4u
06-03-2012, 01:10 PM
Instead of buying the fluker's stuff, I just added a bit of vitamin supplement and Ca2+ powder to his CGD. I smeared it on the leaf that he's on and he ate it so maybe he just doesn't like his food on the ground. Anyway, I'll keep feeding him on his leaves like this, but I don't want to correct the calcium deficiency too quickly or overcorrect so I think I'll add the supplements to his food every other day. I'll probably feed more crickets in the next 2 weeks than I had planned for him originally just because I know he'll eat those and it's a sure way to get the calcium into him. After I get him solid again, I'll start on that feeding plan. Thanks for the help guys, I'll post pics of his progress.

Hi Nate,

I don't think it's a good idea to just treat this as MBD. I have seen similar swelling in geckos and it was due to periarticular accumulation of tophi. Of course the swelling can be caused by many other things, however I think it will be best to have him examined by a vet.

One more thing to be careful with. The problem occurs when adding your own calcium (for dusting crix or adding to a food mix) which has vitamin D already added. This vitamin encourages the reptile to absorb excess calcium, which eventually leads to hypercalcemia, a very serious condition.
http://www.rhac-shack.co.uk/health_issues_25.html

aquamentus_11
06-03-2012, 01:22 PM
hey cricket. you think this is urea-related? i would expect problems using that joint if uric acid was building inside it, but you know your stuff. there are no reptile specialists here in west by God virginia (the vet here had only seen leos and couldn't even help with my tokay), but i'll be going back home to detroit thursday and i know there are many there. i'll keep an eye on it and try the calcium until then. he eats crickets very readily and explosively without signs of any problems with his bones or muscles. you don't think he could've just injured it falling, etc.? the dusted crickets are getting the calcium in him, but i wonder if that's building bad habits and if it'll make getting him on the CGD even harder....

cricket4u
06-03-2012, 01:25 PM
hmm you think this is urea-related?

Just a possibility. How old is he? Any history info?

Yes, it can be due to other reasons. It's tricky with reptiles because they will try to hide illness and pain as much as possible. If it were me I would feed mostly the CGD for now and keep him well hydrated. Try to find a vet who has experience with geckos and get a radiograph performed.

NicKtheGreeK1997
06-03-2012, 03:01 PM
cricket4u that's what I said too, so we are more people here thinking about this reason. I'm not an expert though.

aquamentus_11 don't hurry doing things you might regret, your gecko may be suffering from hypercalcemia and you overdose calcium. Did you read the descreption from the video? I treated mine the same way for hypercalcemia.

Although like RhacHouse said, I didn't see any swollen limb which drives me crazy.

Overall, I think a vet could answer your questions. BTW how long-big is he?

aquamentus_11
06-03-2012, 03:31 PM
Just a possibility. How old is he? Any history info?

Yes, it can be due to other reasons. It's tricky with reptiles because they will try to hide illness and pain as much as possible. If it were me I would feed mostly the CGD for now and keep him well hydrated. Try to find a vet who has experience with geckos and get a radiograph performed.


he's almost 3 mos now and approx. 4cm snout to vent. i don't have a scale and don't want to take him out for awhile anyway. he arrived about 2 weeks ago and i haven't found any poop in all that time. he'll eat tiny amounts of the CGD when I've offered it on a spoon or put it on a leaf in front of him, but like I said, no poop yet. he's very active and literally throws himself after crickets (which i find very reassuring). I got him from Supreme Gecko and they have been very helpful every step of the way.

I wasn't adding any sort of vitamin supplementation to his diet prior to finding him like this yesterday so the problem isn't too much of anything. If it's not just an injury, it's due to lack of something probably caused by adding fruit to the CGD. I pissed off the guys over at Supreme Gecko by ignoring their advice to not handle when I took him out to look at his leg and even more when I told them about the UVB lighting. They suggested dropping the light and crickets and just leaving him alone with pure CGD. I've done that so we'll see what happens. Maybe eating the crickets has stimulated his appetite.

NicKtheGreeK1997
06-03-2012, 03:37 PM
They said the right thing. Pure CGD is what he needs for now and the calcium amount will be balanced. If it gets worse go him to a vet. And he eats but you see no poop? Do you have paper for substrate? He is small and that's why you may be missing the small droppings. But the most important (if you don't go to a vet) is FOLLOW THEIR ADVICE! I told you before, pure CGD will balance the vitamins-calcium. NO CRICKETS-FRUITS-ADDITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS!

aquamentus_11
06-03-2012, 03:38 PM
i don't use calcium with D3 for my nocturnal herps, btw. i've been reading about PTH and calcium and vitamin toxicity/deprivation and every other thing that can possibly cause any and all problems in a human's body for the past 2 months for 16h a day.......i just don't know if it all applies to reptiles. my boards are tuesday and having a metabolically imbalanced baby rhac is the last thing i needed to worry about right now:-x

aquamentus_11
06-03-2012, 03:39 PM
They said the right thing. Pure CGD is what he needs for now and the calcium amount will be balanced. If it gets worse go him to a vet. And he eats but you see no poop? Do you have paper for substrate? He is small and that's why you may be missing the small droppings. But the most important (if you don't go to a vet) is FOLLOW THEIR ADVICE! I told you before, pure CGD will balance the vitamins-calcium. NO CRICKETS-FRUITS-ADDITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS!

haha ok ok. wally over at supreme gecko is a good guy. i'd recommend them to anyone.

cricket4u
06-03-2012, 04:07 PM
i don't use calcium with D3 for my nocturnal herps, btw. i've been reading about PTH and calcium and vitamin toxicity/deprivation and every other thing that can possibly cause any and all problems in a human's body for the past 2 months for 16h a day.......i just don't know if it all applies to reptiles. my boards are tuesday and having a metabolically imbalanced baby rhac is the last thing i needed to worry about right now:-x
He's so young, the large picture had me thinking he was older. Well, an injury has moved up to the top of the list, unless of course he was born with a congenital defect or has been administered any nephrotoxic antibiotics. Hopefully the swelling will go down soon.

cricket4u
06-04-2012, 12:37 AM
Did you notice the swelling once I bought him or just recently?

aquamentus_11
06-04-2012, 07:53 AM
Did you notice the swelling once I bought him or just recently?

i only noticed it recently, but it could've been there for awhile. to be honest, i have no idea how long it's been around since i've been leaving him alone for the past few weeks to settle in. on an even stranger note, i had a dream last night that he was all tangled up in the thermometer probe's cord and he was all swollen and bulging out around it.

RhacHouse
06-05-2012, 03:02 PM
Well it looks like I'm alone on this one huh? Even though, I'm sticking to my guns.:) We all have to agree that without actual testing no one can be 100% sure of whats going on. That being said, in any diagnosis, you always start with the obvious and most common issues pertaining to the symptoms. With out any info supporting a congenital defect or administration of nephrotoxic antibiotics, I really believe this is reaching, especially since the animal came from a reputable breeder.
I'm not saying it hasn't happened but I personally know of no confirmed cases of hypercalcemia or hypervitaminosis in Rhacs and since Nate confirmed he was not supplementing, I believe this to be a bit of stretch too. MBD is way to common to rule out, and early symptoms are often swollen joints. Even with over supplementation, it would take some time and a lot of D3 to get reach toxic levels. In Allens own study, animals given 4 times the inclusion ratio of d3 for a six month period showed no ill effects and according to the manufacturer, toxicity is not usually seen until 10X the normal dosage is approached. I will agree the symptoms don't rule out hypercalcemia but given the animal in question is young and still growing I believe lack of calcium to be more likely. I noticed the same visual condition on two separate occasions with newly purchased animals under quarantine. I treated with the liquid calcium and in both case the swelling disappeared in a couple of weeks with no other issues.
I maintain over 300 rhacs and feed my animals CGD mixed with fresh pureed mango an a very regular basis. I feed bugs dusted with d3 calcium several times week and leave a dish of calcium D3 in with my breeders to take as needed. I have never had any issues, just results. My gargoyles lay up to 8 clutches a year without crashing or snowflaking in the shells and my chahoua consistently lay 3-4 clutches a year without crashing or snowflaking. If over supplementation was that easy my colony would be hurtin.

Hannibal
06-05-2012, 05:37 PM
I have to agree with Paul on this!

cricket4u
06-05-2012, 06:08 PM
There is a difference between acute toxicity and chronic oversupplementing. Chronic oversupplementing can occur over a long period of time and cause soft tissue calcification. Oversupplementing with vitamins and minerals can induce iatrogenic hypervitaminosis D3 or A resulting in a form of MBD. It does not need to come from a bottle of supplements. The CGD includes vitamins and minerals and the caloric energy requirement for each species is unknown. So it's possible to give too much in one day or overfeed.

The only reason I posted the link regarding hypervitaminosis was because feeding the CGD was something new to him; not because I believed it caused the swelling.

NicKtheGreeK1997
06-06-2012, 04:08 AM
Why if your feeding a balanced diet as in the CGD will a gecko begin showing signs of MBD?

He said that he was feeding with crickets as well, which were occasionally dusted with calcium.

cricket4u
06-06-2012, 07:30 AM
I am sorry for the confusion.

@Rhachouse- I noticed the same visual condition on two separate occasions with newly purchased animals under quarantine. I treated with the liquid calcium and in both case the swelling disappeared in a couple of weeks with no other issues.

Do you know if these geckos were only being fed CGD right before you purchased them?

aquamentus_11
06-06-2012, 08:04 AM
He said that he was feeding with crickets as well, which were occasionally dusted with calcium.

that was after i saw the swelling. i gave only CGD mixed with fruit prior to finding the swelling. afteri found the swelling, i gave 2 dusted crickets to get some calcium into him, then everyone said not to so I stopped. I'm just going to give him straight CGD until either the swelling goes away or it progresses. it hasn't gotten any worse or better so far.

@rhachouse: how do you administer the liquid calcium? i don't think his situation calls for force-feeding it.

cricket4u
06-06-2012, 09:44 AM
that was after i saw the swelling. i gave only CGD mixed with fruit prior to finding the swelling. afteri found the swelling, i gave 2 dusted crickets to get some calcium into him, then everyone said not to so I stopped. I'm just going to give him straight CGD until either the swelling goes away or it progresses. it hasn't gotten any worse or better so far.

@rhachouse: how do you administer the liquid calcium? i don't think his situation calls for force-feeding it.

I know you are trying to avoid stress at this time, but have you tried feeling around the swelling and comparing it to the other foot? If so, does the swelling feel like fluid or swollen tissue?

aquamentus_11
06-06-2012, 10:02 AM
I know you are trying to avoid stress at this time, but have you tried feeling around the swelling and comparing it to the other foot? If so, does the swelling feel like fluid or swollen tissue?

it's fluid-filled. i felt it when i took him out the first day. no observable pain was associated with me touching it and moving it around.

aquamentus_11
06-06-2012, 02:17 PM
i found stool this morning, so at least he's eating. however, his left ankle is swollen too. that's all i need to see: i'm going to start putting the liquid calcium in his food and feeding the crickets a few times a week.

cricket4u
06-06-2012, 03:25 PM
i found stool this morning, so at least he's eating. however, his left ankle is swollen too. that's all i need to see: i'm going to start putting the liquid calcium in his food and feeding the crickets a few times a week.
There are several conditions that can cause edema. Attempting to mask the symptoms temporarily is not the solution. I highly suggest you take him to a vet.

http://www.sidneyanimalhospital.com/downloads/Caresheet_reptile_03_MetabolicBoneDisease.pdf

aquamentus_11
06-06-2012, 05:43 PM
There are several conditions that can cause edema. Attempting to mask the symptoms temporarily is not the solution. I highly suggest you take him to a vet.

http://www.sidneyanimalhospital.com/downloads/Caresheet_reptile_03_MetabolicBoneDisease.pdf

well, i don't know how i would possibly mask the symptoms: if the edema corrects it'll be due to a correction of the underlying problem. edema involving more than one of the limbs in a very young animal that wasn't eating all point to calcium deficiency. whether that deficiency is due to low dietary intake or the inability to make use of ingested calcium, i'm not sure. i'm going to treat him for MBD with D3 and calcium and i'll get him to the vet that i used to work for when i get home later this week. thanks for all the help everyone.

cricket4u
06-06-2012, 06:03 PM
What I was referring to was the few cases of very young geckos who died from kidney failure. Whether they were born with a condition or developed it very young, I don't know. However it does exist, but rarely so obviously the chances are very slim. Anyway, hope he improves and keep us updated when possible.

RhacHouse
06-06-2012, 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by cricket4u
Why if your feeding a balanced diet as in the CGD will a gecko begin showing signs of MBD?

For several reasons, but I believe the most common cause is inadequate temperatures. If the temps are consistently low the animal can not digest its food completely and therefore does not absorb all the nutrients it needs from the food, regardless of balanced the diet is.


I am sorry for the confusion.

@Rhachouse- I noticed the same visual condition on two separate occasions with newly purchased animals under quarantine. I treated with the liquid calcium and in both case the swelling disappeared in a couple of weeks with no other issues.

Do you know if these geckos were only being fed CGD right before you purchased them?

Unfortunately, I do not. But I can tell you that for me, one of those animals flat out refused to any diet at all for the first few months I had him. His only intake was dusted crickets and the liquid calcium sup.


that was after i saw the swelling. i gave only CGD mixed with fruit prior to finding the swelling. afteri found the swelling, i gave 2 dusted crickets to get some calcium into him, then everyone said not to so I stopped. I'm just going to give him straight CGD until either the swelling goes away or it progresses. it hasn't gotten any worse or better so far.

@rhachouse: how do you administer the liquid calcium? i don't think his situation calls for force-feeding it.

In my opinion force feeding should always be the last resort. I lightly spray the animal with water to get a few droplets on the face. When they start licking it off I administer the calcium through a dropper. Just one or two drops a day till the swelling is gone.

cricket4u
06-06-2012, 11:59 PM
For several reasons, but I believe the most common cause is inadequate temperatures. If the temps are consistently low the animal can not digest its food completely and therefore does not absorb all the nutrients it needs from the food, regardless of balanced the diet is.



Unfortunately, I do not. But I can tell you that for me, one of those animals flat out refused to any diet at all for the first few months I had him. His only intake was dusted crickets and the liquid calcium sup.



I know all the reasons why:biggrin: I deleted it because I thought you wrote it happens often with your geckos. So I was wondering why someone who has the experience keeping so many would continue having problems. Then I realized I had read it wrong, sorry.

RhacHouse
06-07-2012, 12:16 AM
I just realized something else that may help support my theory. Banana was added to the diet in the beginning, witch under normal circumstances would be fine, but if the animal already had a calcium/phosphorus imbalance, the banana could have made that imbalance worse. Bananas have a very high phosphorus to calcium ratio. So the true cause could be to much phosphorus, not a calcium deficiency. This scenario is actually worse because the excess phosphorus really messes with the kidneys, leading to edema. If this is the case then its even more important to supplement a calcium that is easily and quickly absorbed into the system to help correct the 2:1 ratio.

RhacHouse
06-07-2012, 12:34 AM
I know all the reasons why:biggrin: I deleted it because I thought you wrote it happens often with your geckos. So I was wondering why someone who has the experience keeping so many would continue having problems. Then I realized I had read it wrong, sorry.

No worries.:)

cricket4u
06-07-2012, 12:46 AM
I just realized something else that may help support my theory. Banana was added to the diet in the beginning, witch under normal circumstances would be fine, but if the animal already had a calcium/phosphorus imbalance, the banana could have made that imbalance worse. Bananas have a very high phosphorus to calcium ratio. So the true cause could be to much phosphorus, not a calcium deficiency. This scenario is actually worse because the excess phosphorus messes with the kidneys, leading to edema. If this is the case then its even more important to supplement a calcium that is easily and quickly absorbed into the system to help correct the 2:1 ratio.

Yes, with that I agree. I had actually missed that part about the banana until I read it over earlier. So my fear is that he may need more than just liquid calcium. Another thing that bothers me is that he mentioned it's fluid, not the usual swelling, unsteady gait, rubber jaw, ect that is normally seen. It must have been an ongoing problem. I have also noticed that there has been quite a few reports of swollen legs in young cresties mostly and I am just wondering what is going on. The people claim to have the appropriate temps and only feed the CGD. A few even made it to the vet and the vet said it was not MBD so they were send home and told to wait it out.

RhacHouse
06-17-2012, 08:37 AM
Updates?

aquamentus_11
06-17-2012, 07:48 PM
Updates?

It hasn't reduced at all, but also hasn't progressed. I've been finding poop sporadically so he is eating. Still just keeping an eye out.

aquamentus_11
06-22-2012, 11:52 AM
The swelling has not changed, but he does eat a very evident amount of the CGD every night (for about a week) and poops A LOT (mostly on me). I've been adding some Ca2+ powder (without D3) to the mix. Sometimes his tail looks like it may have a few slight kinks to it when I straighten it out, but at other times when he's using it, it looks completely straight. I've decided that this is probably just a factor of it being prehensile, but with the swelling in that joint, it still worries me a bit. I'd think that a kinked tail would be evident at all times. I also wouldn't think that the MBD would be progressing now that he's getting a steady intake of Ca2+.

Recently, he's been acting a bit lethargic and doesn't jump between my hands like he used to. He mostly just sits on my hand when I hold him or crawls up my arm, but no more of the scurrying or crazy leaps like he used to do. I can no longer see his ribs and his body looks much larger and rounder. I'm not sure if this is because he's been eating a lot, but he's also begun doing a strange head-bobbing, almost hiccoughing motion where he'll breathe normally for a few seconds then take a huge, jerky breath or two. His whole rib cage retracts when he does this, but he never opens his mouth or gasps. It's almost as if he has a hard time taking a breath sometimes, but I don't see any nasal discharge and he breathes normally most of the time without wheezing. The temp in my house is 70-75 F at all times and I spray him once in the evening and once in the morning. The larger abdomen coinciding with the breathing makes me wonder if he ate too much and it's pressing on his airway :roll:. Other than the weird breathing thing, I'd say that he's doing very well and calming down around me. Has anyone else seen their herps doing this strange breathing behavior? What about the decrease in rambunctious behavior: concerning or a sign of developing trust?

aquamentus_11
06-23-2012, 09:47 AM
for those that read the last post, the hiccoughing thing has stopped and his abdomen has returned to normal size. i put some pothos in with him yesterday and a cork bark cylinder and i've stopped adding calcium to his diet.

aquamentus_11
07-22-2012, 10:48 AM
he's been doing so well that i finally moved him into a 12x12x18" zoomed with his pothos and some type of ficus. his tail was looking a bit crooked for awhile, but i've been tong feeding dusted crickets and it has reversed. i'm going to stick with crickets since they're such an easy way to guarantee that he gets what he needs (i switch between Ca2+ and reptivite every other night and throw in some D3 once or twice a week), but i still offer CGD at all times and hand feed that whenever i take him out. from what i've read, they tend to slow down on the crickets as they get older and i'll just slowly increase the CGD in his diet and taper off the live prey. of course, i'm going to have to wait until he's bulked up and has some stores to live off of before i try to make the switch. the right foreleg remains larger-looking than the others, but it doesn't bother him and he seems to be doing very well so I guess we'll see if it ever goes away. i've been running a UVB bulb for a few hours a few days a week and he seems to appreciate it: he stays out in the light basking for most of the day.

i've been on call for the past few nights and my sleep schedule is all screwed up, so i was up at around 2am last night. i went in to peek at him and saw him looking pre-shed for the first time ever. even though he's over double his original size, it was a very encouraging sight to actually see him doing what a healthy herp should be doing. he's nice and shiny this morning. thanks for all the help, everyone.