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crestiekid38
03-31-2013, 06:16 PM
can i feed my leo a staple diet of silk worms as im not big on crickets because of smell sound and escaping as im feeding.. If i can could i use sand as he would be eating out of a dish. I think this way he couldnt eat the sand while hunting his worms so no risk of impaction. I was also hoping to get your opinion on crushed walnut shell substrate (as it is ground up to almost saw dust in my pet store). Please dont recommend carpet or tiles as i already know about these and am hoping for something a bit more natural looking. He is in a 10 gallon now and im upgrading to a twenty gallon very soon. He is only about three and a half months so please help me out if you can. THANX :banana:

Marauderhex
03-31-2013, 06:27 PM
Remind me again how tile that looks like slate (quite abundant in Afghanistan) looks less naturalistic than sand, not all that common. As for food, the best thing you can do is offer variety. Crickets, roaches, worms, etc.

crestiekid38
03-31-2013, 06:30 PM
Ya roaches mice grubs most worms all a big no with my parents. you didn't really answer any of my questions please reply if you know anything more about my questions

Embrace Calamity
03-31-2013, 08:19 PM
can i feed my leo a staple diet of silk worms as im not big on crickets because of smell sound and escaping as im feeding..From what I can tell, silkworms are quite healthy. However, they also appear to be more difficult to keep alive, more expensive, and some geckos apparently refuse to eat them. So you may have to consider other options whether you like it or not, since you already have the leo.

If i can could i use sand as he would be eating out of a dish. I think this way he couldnt eat the sand while hunting his worms so no risk of impaction.Regular (non-calcium) would be your best bet if you insist on going that route, but, frankly, leopard geckos don't come from a sand environment. They come from areas with dry, rocky soil, rocks, and dry grasses, so pure sand really isn't very "natural" for them. Still not a suggested method, especially since you already had a leo die that likely had sand stuck in its eyes and vent.

I was also hoping to get your opinion on crushed walnut shell substrate (as it is ground up to almost saw dust in my pet store).No.

~Maggot

crestiekid38
03-31-2013, 09:10 PM
thanx could you recommend another food source then. Is it possible to use very large bark chips or aspen shavings (i have heard more than one case of them living happily on aspen). I also read coco husk was good but i wasnt sure as that is more jungle/arboreal bedding. I liked the walnut shells as they looked like sand and figured he could digest and pass them. Could they work if I fed in a seperate critter keeper.As they are from dry rocky terrain could garden gravel or stones work. Thanx again :biggrin:

Elizabeth Freer
03-31-2013, 09:54 PM
crestiekid38 ~

Why are you readdressing all the substrate questions we covered in your blog earlier today :sad:?

You mention on a separate thread that your first leo died and that you used sand then. And now you wish to try some non-recommended substrate again?

(The answer remains "No." to corn cob pellets and alfalfa pellets. The reason why is high risk of impaction.)

Click on this thread: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/leopard-geckos-general-info-intros-pics/49884-my-dear-peach.html

It is stressful to move leos every time you feed them.

Where are you from? In the United Kingdom people feed grasshoppers and locusts. Silkworms are not really a good staple for the reasons Embrace Calamity mentions above.

Crickets do not need to be noisy or smelly. If kept according to the Cricket Guidelines in the Leo Feeder sub-forum they will not smell at all. There is a new cricket now available in the USA, Gryllodes sigillatus, which is quiet.

Embrace Calamity
03-31-2013, 10:20 PM
thanx could you recommend another food source then.You've already pretty much ruled everything out - crickets, grubs, roaches, and worms. What else is there? If your gecko won't eat silkworms or you don't have luck keeping them alive/can't afford them, then you need to figure out something to feed your leo or find someone who is willing to deal with proper foods.


Is it possible to use very large bark chips or aspen shavings (i have heard more than one case of them living happily on aspen).No. Just because you know of one time when it hadn't caused any issues, that doesn't make it a safe substrate. If a gecko were to accidentally eat one (and yes, it has happened), they would be in a world of pain and possibly some serious trouble.
I also read coco husk was good but i wasnt sure as that is more jungle/arboreal bedding.I've never heard of this being used for leos, but if you insist on using loose substrate, this might be one of the safest bets.
Could they work if I fed in a seperate critter keeper.Agreed with Elizabeth that this is unnecessary and just stressful. Would be much better to just find a substrate that's safe.
As they are from dry rocky terrain could garden gravel or stones work.NO. Dry, rocky soil is not the same as gravel. Dirt =/= gravel.

~Maggot

Elizabeth Freer
03-31-2013, 10:31 PM
Click here: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/leopard-geckos-food-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

There is a Leopard Gecko Caresheet linked right below in my signature. There are also two other Leo Caresheets on Geckos Unlimited. Please read them for much information.

crestiekid38
04-01-2013, 08:54 AM
Alright thanx I'm getting some slate tiles asap. Could his feet and tail tip not get caught in between two of them. Can I feed him earthworms/night crawlers or meal worms as a staple. I have heard many different arguments about them and was unsure. Also what is wrong with wax worms if I don't feed him a lot (I know they are fatty). Thanx again
**Crestiekid38**

~Every thing should be as made as simple as possible but not simpler~Albert Einstein

crestiekid38
04-01-2013, 09:52 AM
Alright thanx I'm getting some slate tiles asap. Could his feet and tail tip not get caught in between two of them. Can I feed him earthworms/night crawlers or meal worms as a staple. I have heard many different arguments about them and was unsure. Also what is wrong with wax worms if I don't feed him a lot (I know they are fatty). Thanx again
**Crestiekid38**

crestiekid38
04-01-2013, 09:56 AM
:oops:Sorry posted twice don't know what happened

Elizabeth Freer
04-01-2013, 11:34 AM
Alright thanx I'm getting some slate tiles asap. Could his feet and tail tip not get caught in between two of them. Can I feed him earthworms/night crawlers or meal worms as a staple. I have heard many different arguments about them and was unsure. Also what is wrong with wax worms if I don't feed him a lot (I know they are fatty). Thanx again
**Crestiekid38**

~Every thing should be as made as simple as possible but not simpler~Albert Einstein

Good on the slate...make sure it is no thicker than "standard' bathroom/kitchen tiles.

The reason it would be helpful to know whether you live in the USA is that the products we recommend and a few other things will be different if you live on other shores.

Can't find profile info that used to be readily available :sad:. Depending upon how old you are it is very important for your parents to be involved with getting your leo. Can you share my Leo Caresheet with them and then let me know when they have had a chance to look at it?

Properly setting up for a leo takes a village sometimes.

A 30 in x 12.5 inch x 12.5 inch tank is recommended for one leopard gecko for his life....15+ years if everything goes well. PetCo is having their $1 per gallon sale till April 27th.

XoVictoryXo
04-01-2013, 03:24 PM
Leo's need active crawlers as part of their "staple" diet- such as crickets or roaches, that's how they get their exercise, and those active bugs- sharpens their hunting skills, sight, and instincts. Hunting is part of their routine- if you take their hunting away that would make them miserable.
you can then add worms

Elizabeth Freer
04-02-2013, 03:50 AM
Leopard geckos can get addicted to waxworms. Then they will refuse other prey.

crestiekid38
04-02-2013, 01:13 PM
Alright thanx every one just put my little guy on slate and keeping him on crickets. Thanx again.

Elizabeth Freer
04-02-2013, 05:10 PM
Alright thanx every one just put my little guy on slate and keeping him on crickets. Thanx again.

Good for you with the slate :)!

What temperatures are you keeping him at?

How are you doing for calcium and for vitamins for your leo?

How are you feeding the crickets?

crestiekid38
04-02-2013, 06:43 PM
Good for you with the slate :)!

What temperatures are you keeping him at?

How are you doing for calcium and for vitamins for your leo?

How are you feeding the crickets?

temperatures are 84-90F during the day 80-83F at night
I dust with calcium and vitamins each night as he is only three and a half months
and i give him 4-6 crickets a night which he loves and everything is good comes out each mourning and wait to be held i keep a wet papertowel under one of his hides for humidity i have a kool hide as well i have a bit of sand between the tiles not much because of obvious reasons and the tiles dont go together to great he is in a twenty gall what are your opinions on me getting him a little buddy i think the tanks big enough but i am worried as i do not have another tank if they fight so i started saving for a veiled chameleon instead but would like to here your ideas thanks for all your help.

Crestiekid38 :king::ninja:

Elizabeth Freer
04-03-2013, 01:26 AM
temperatures are 84-90F during the day 80-83F at night

A leopard gecko requires a tank which can provide a range of temperatures during the day time. What size tank have you?

Temperatures for all leos regardless of size:
88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the UTH on 24/7. Can turn off overhead heating at night.

I dust with calcium and vitamins each night as he is only three and a half months

No matter how old a leopard gecko is, only lightly dust 2-3x per week. However, that does depend upon the exact supplement you use. Please provide GU with all the details.

and i give him 4-6 crickets a night which he loves and everything is good comes out each mourning and wait to be held i keep a wet papertowel under one of his hides for humidity i have a kool hide as well

Need 3 hides: warm dry hide, warm moist hide, cool dry hide. Easy to make a warm moist hide out of any opaque plastic container.

i have a bit of sand between the tiles not much because of obvious reasons and the tiles dont go together to great he is in a twenty gall

Does your tank measure 30 inch x 12.5 inch x 12.5 inch?

what are your opinions on me getting him a little buddy i think the tanks big enough but i am worried as i do not have another tank if they fight so i started saving for a veiled chameleon instead but would like to here your ideas thanks for all your help.

You are welcome for the help. We need to hear more about your setup. Please post a picture of your leo and his cage. Do NOT recommend getting another leo for your current cage. Leopard geckos really are not social animals like cats or dogs. They "prefer" to be kept alone.

What kind of thermometer have you? Have you a thermostat?

Crestiekid38 :king::ninja:

How about printing out my leopard gecko care sheet? Then you will have all the information in front of you and in front of your parents. You can ask questions for clarification.

Are you checking in from a regular computer and not a celll phone?

I have an idea. I will post the Health Questionnaire. Please fill it out as best you can. That will serve to highlight some important husbandry you may be missing.

Elizabeth Freer
04-03-2013, 01:29 AM
Please complete this latest update of the Health Questionnaire:

#50---Cricket4u's Gecko Health Questionnaire

High quality pictures of your leo, his issues, and his habitat are extremely useful.

General Information
Species of lizard:
Gecko's name:
Morph:
Gender:
Age:
Weight:
Total length:
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it:
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner):
Captive bred or wild caught:

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth):
Cage (type, size):
Substrate provided:
Types of hiding places provided:
Is there a humidity hide? location?
Please describe any other furnishings:
List recent changes in the environment, if any:

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s):
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):

Natural lighting
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window:

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage?
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarium type, other):
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide:
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What device(s) are used to heat the tank (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other):
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners):
Are you using a thermostat(s)?
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time?
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much?

Humidity
Is the humidity measured?
Humidity range:

Diet
Insects and worms, list type:
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with?
How often do you feed your gecko?
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often?
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both?
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without?
Multivitamins (include brand name)?
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet:

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs:
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased?
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased?
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain):
Regurgitation:
Discharge from the eyes or nose:
Increased breathing rate or effort:
Change in the droppings:
Urates
---white or yellowish:
---size of urates as compared to size of feces:
Abnormal skin color or shedding:
Parasites on the skin or in the feces:
Weakness:

Current medications & dosages:
Previous problems and/or illnesses:

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other animals that are kept in the same cage:
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months):
Are any of your other pets ill?

crestiekid38
04-03-2013, 08:15 AM
High quality pictures of your leo, his issues, and his habitat are extremely useful.

General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard gecko
Gecko's name: Apollo
Morph:High yellow (I think)
Gender:
Age:Three and a half months
Weight:unknown
Total length: 4.3 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it:
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): pet store( Trent pet)
Captive bred or wild caught: captive bred

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 24x12.5x12
Cage (type, size): old fish aquarium 20 gallons
Substrate provided: slate
Types of hiding places provided: moist hide cool hide warm hide
Is there a humidity hide? location? Yes warm side
Please describe any other furnishings: water dish large basking stones exo Terra vine
List recent changes in the environment, if any: changed from carpet to slate

Lighting none
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s):
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):

Natural lighting
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: yes

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? Yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarium type, other): analog
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 92F
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What device(s) are used to heat the tank (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): under tank heater
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): tank has legs and is on stand
Are you using a thermostat(s)? No
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Moist hide
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? No about 10F

Humidity
Is the humidity measured?
Humidity range: very humid

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: crickets
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: apple oats calcium dust
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? Fruits grains calcium dust
How often do you feed your gecko? Every day
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Flukers calcium dust with d3 a pinch on crickets every third feeding
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Flukers with d3
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? With
Multivitamins (include brand name)? Don't sell in my town
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet:

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs:
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? Increased
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? Increased
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): gain ( in tail)
Regurgitation: no
Discharge from the eyes or nose: no
Increased breathing rate or effort: no
Change in the droppings: no
Urates
---white or yellowish: white
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: about one third
Abnormal skin color or shedding: no
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no
Weakness: no

Current medications & dosages: none
Previous problems and/or illnesses: nonr

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: none
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): Apollo
Are any of your other pets ill? My cat

Elizabeth Freer
04-04-2013, 05:50 AM
Please remove the calcium with vitamin D3 from the tank right away. It is very dangerous to keep that in the tank, because you risk D3 overdosage and possibly permanent damage to your leo.

The only supplement that belongs in the tank at all is a very small bottle cap of plain calcium carbonate for backup only. If you notice your leo licking that frequently, something else is wrong.

Back later today.

crestiekid38
04-04-2013, 07:48 AM
Alright removing right now thanks for your help

Elizabeth Freer
04-05-2013, 08:29 AM
There are several more things:

The analog thermometer you mention may not be very accurate. How about getting a digital thermometer with a probe and rechecking all your temperatures? Then you will be able to dangle the probe from the screen and get those air temperatures. The temperature in your leo's warm dry hide could be too warm and the reason he is spending more time in his moist hide.

Are you using any overhead heat in addition to your UTH?

How about a thermostat? Keeps temperatures from flutuating much and minimizes risks of house fires.

You mention that you are feeding calcium dust with D3 to the crickets. :sad:

Fluker's with D3 has a huge amount of D3 even for 2x per week dusting. However, your leo really needs a multivitamin which you may need to order online (Amazon ?). I recommend Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3/vitamin A acetate.

Elizabeth Freer
04-05-2013, 08:36 AM
Hassle-free Cricket Care
ElizabethFreer@aol.com
Geckos Unlimited/Pacific Northwest Herpetological Society
22 March 2013 (amended)
(www.GeckosUnlimited.com)

Take a suitably sized container, for instance, an extra large Kritter Keeper or a 56 quart Sterilite bin. Place a good quality all purpose poultry feed, dry oatmeal, and alfalfa hay on the bottom of the cage. Add your crickets. Next cover with a double layer of egg cartons. On top of the egg cartons place a folded paper towel. Spray the paper towel generously every other day. Keep crickets between 70 F and the mid 80s. They will grow faster if warmer, but seem to do fine at 70 F. If room temperatures exceed 85 F spray the paper towel daily.

Spraying the paper towel is an excellent way to provide moisture for your crickets and save them from perishing from too much moisture.

Feed crickets an All Purpose Poultry Feed (contains about 16% protein, 3% fat, & vitamin A acetate), dry oatmeal, alfalfa hay (“Hay-Kob”: 800-332-5623), collard greens, and carrots. General Mills' dry cereal whole grain TOTAL can be used in a pinch.

Do not feed insects puppy, kitten, dog, and/or cat biscuits/food OR tropical fish flakes. Those are way too high in protein and fat and potentially could cause hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease).

Do not feed dead/canned crickets. Any gecko gets moisture from well-hydrated prey as well as the nutrients such prey provides.

By following these recommendations it is quite easy to keep your crickets alive and thriving easily one to two months past purchase.

Formally "gutload" crickets 48 hours prior to feeding off to geckos with T-REX Calcium Plus Food for Crickets.

Gutloading the Feeders versus Feeding the Feeders 24/7
The term gutloading causes some confusion. Feed your feeders a nutritious regular diet all the time to build strong feeder bodies. Then only feed a special GUTLOAD product to the crickets, for example, 1-2 days prior to feeding the crickets to your geckos. T-REX Calcium Plus Cricket Food is a good gutload food. Top off the crickets by lightly dusting with a multivitamin containing D3/vitamin A acetate and phosphorus-free calcium with D3 no more than 2x weekly.