Hoping to learn from an unfortunate loss

Paul de Boer, Jr. · #1 02-07-2007, 06:03 PM

In the past couple of months, i've lost an amyae female (which just happened to be my favorite of the whole collection: absolutely beautiful with a very fiery--but winsome-- personality), and a wheeleri male. There was really no apparent reason for either death. The amyae had not been eating well but otherwise seemed fine. And the wheeleri just was dead one morning when my friend (where i keep them) went to feed him.

So, all that to say this - Saturday we are going to disect them! My insatiable craving for knowledge paired with the skill and experience of Brian Duracka (an accomplished herpotologist of box-turtle fame) should hopefully yeild some interesting pictures/diagrams. Neither of us are too familiar with what lies beneath the skin of these things, so I may need to turn to y'all for some help.

Stay tuned for pics...
-paul

Stickytoe · #2 02-07-2007, 06:19 PM

Sorry to hear about your losses, Paul. Hopefully you can find out what happened by dissecting them. If not, it may be worth it to send them in for a necropsy to ensure the safety of the rest of your collection.

_________________
Nicole Chaney
www.stickytoegecko.com

nycherper · #3 02-07-2007, 07:08 PM

This sounds odd, but why wait until saturday? If the geckos are not frozen or in perservatives then the bodies will reek! If you froze it and plan on dethawing the geckos than you might not see positive results. When any living organism is frozen water in the cytoplasm expands causing cells to lyse. That is why it is probably impossible to cryogenically freeze a human today. Just some interesting facts, please do tell your results!

Ken Bartenfeld · #4 02-08-2007, 02:16 AM

Make sure you have some SHARP scalpels. The skin is extremely tough. A bit tricky to cut actually.

When I had some of my wheeleri die I cut one open, but with my knowledge. I didn't see anything that didn't look right.

Good luck and sorry for your losses. I know how that feels. Add a male wheeleri to what you lost and that is what I went through about two months ago.

oli · #5 02-10-2007, 06:13 PM

Yeah, a female amyae of mine is about to die too. She just stopped eating one day, and is just withering away. I wouldn't take it personal. There is definitely something wrong with female amyae's in this country. I've been told by many that only 50% of the female amyae's born will live into maturity. What seems to happen is that once they get about a year old, for some unknown reason they just stop eating and just die. This is exactly what happened to my female, and yours, as well as many many other peoples' female amyae's. There's obviously something not right, whether genetically, or a lack thereof. I wouldn't be suprised if it is similar to what is happening to the strophurus ciliaris ciliaris. If anyone can shed any light on this situation, I would pay for this info. I'm very sorry for you losses....

stevegeckosetc · #6 02-10-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli

Yeah, a female amyae of mine is about to die too. She just stopped eating one day, and is just withering away. I wouldn't take it personal. There is definitely something wrong with female amyae's in this country. I've been told by many that only 50% of the female amyae's born will live into maturity. What seems to happen is that once they get about a year old, for some unknown reason they just stop eating and just die. This is exactly what happened to my female, and yours, as well as many many other peoples' female amyae's. There's obviously something not right, whether genetically, or a lack thereof. I wouldn't be suprised if it is similar to what is happening to the strophurus ciliaris ciliaris. If anyone can shed any light on this situation, I would pay for this info. I'm very sorry for you losses....

From my experience with amyae I would disagree that 50% of all amyae females in the US do not live to maturity. I can only speak of my collection, but 100% the amyae babies I have personally raised to maturity have lived past 1 year of age. I have heard of some amyae raised by others having sudden unexplained problems, but 50% seems way too high. I'm not sure if it is something due to the strength of particular bloodlines or parasites in the ones that are dying, but it very well could be both. We give our amyae daily attention, and have had great luck with them.

Paul, I would skip the gross examination and bring the gecko to a vet to get a full necropsy, including having the tissues examined for the presence of a parasite. Depending on the vet it will cost a bit, but it is well worth if you find out exactly what caused the problem. If it turns out you have a parasite issue in your collection, identification of the exact parasite will allow you to address it in your other animals that may be silently harboring the parasite (and could suddenly go downhill in the future).

oli · #7 02-11-2007, 10:10 AM

I'm not trying to put down the business or anything, maybe it's something myself and others are doing differently(or incorrectly)?? I can't figure it out though. My female died this morning, she just stopped eating one day, and went downhill from there. I treated her for parasites, but this was obviously not successful. Steve, if you could just simply explain how your setups are, maybe this would be helpful. How do you keep parasites from being a problem besides from keeping enclosures clean?? Has it ever happened to you that a female stopped eating and lost weight til she was dead? What would you attribute this sort of death to?

stevegeckosetc · #8 02-11-2007, 09:06 PM

Hi Oli,

I don't think I keep mine any different than how others keep them. I keep my amyae singly in plastic boxes in a rack on a fine grain sand substrate. The cages are heated with flexwatt, hot spot at 88. They are fed crickets and roaches, and sprayed once or twice a week.

If parasites are the problem in the geckos that died, a perfect cage setup will not solve the problem. Since your gecko just died, it is a perfect time to get a full necropsy done. Keep it in the fridge to keep the tissues in good shape, and get it to the vet ASAP. Just curious, you said you treated it for parasites...what parasite did it have, and what medicine did you use?

You asked how to keep parasites from being a problem. The first thing you need to do in your current situation is to figure out what may be the problem in your collection and treat it with the appropriate medicine (if needed). If you find out that the one that died had a particular parasite, I would do a lot of fecal exams to see which other geckos may also have that parasite. Be very careful about spreading any parasites from the sick geckos to the ones that appear healthy. Unfortunately, geckos can live with a silent parasite and appear healthy, but if they get stressed out they can succomb to the parasite. Other tips are to wash your hands between handling geckos (if they are sick or healthy), throw away or sterilize the cage that housed the sick gecko, and quarantine new purchases or any you suspect may be sick.

Stickytoe · #9 02-13-2007, 09:37 PM

As an N. amyae keeper/breeder for 4 years, I am happy to report that I have never had any of my animals die (both those that I have bought from other breeders OR those produced from my own breeders).

Lately I have heard of 2-3 owners having problems. In my opinion it is worth a necropsy of any lost animals, and of course strict quarantine procedures for any new animals acquired, complete with fecal tests to confirm/deny the presence of parasites.

________________
Nicole Chaney
www.stickytoegecko.com