Wheeleri issues, any one ever experience this?

oli · #1 12-06-2010, 12:34 PM

OK, so my female wheeleri has been fine for some time and now all of a sudden her eyes seem to be VERY bulgy and are almost bugging out of her head! It's just a little too much and I'm wondering what this could be? Genetics or any other issue? She did not always have this. She also has got swollen elbows on her front legs, so much that they do not bend properly. It is like the elbows are very thick and hard. Aside from that she eats well and is ok, she doesn't seem to mind the joints or her big eyes. Any ideas? I supplement regularly btw. thanks....

kupper · #2 12-06-2010, 10:29 PM

oli I think if you do a search via this forum there was an exact same problem bought up about 8 months ago where the same symptoms presented

that is the best I can give you at this stage as I have not seen anything similar happen to my 60 odd captives or any aussie collections

oli · #3 12-07-2010, 09:56 AM

thanks kupper, I read that and it is 3 pages of info and then there is no solution at the end or explanation of what the problem was. Everyone was saying post the outcome and all that, but it never was done. I think my wheeleri only has so long to go. It's not a calcium issue, and it may not even be rectifyable. I'd just really like to know what caused it if anything, or if somthing could be changed. I have been keeping wheeleri in the same manner for some time and never experienced this with them, or on my other captives. It does sound like Geckoholic's gecko had the same problem that my gecko is having by the looks of the thread. I may have to bring the animal to a skilled reptile vet as I am interested to see what they would find. If anyone else has something they'd like to throw in here which could explain a little to me that would be tight...

rhachic · #4 12-08-2010, 09:01 AM

Swollen eyes can be a number of things. I have a gecko that has a duct problem in one of his eyes. It will swell HUGE with clear fluid then after about a week the fluid will be reabsorbed or the outer skin will pop (i know really gross). I've heard of it occurring in several different species, and a reptile med book I have shows it occurring in various reptiles, not just geckos. As far as the elbows go...no clue. Maybe they're unrelated problems? Either way, I hope she makes it

kupper · #5 12-10-2010, 05:44 AM

I think a trip to the vet will clear your mind and give you a more indicative idea as to what it is ailing your wheeleri

good luck

oli · #6 12-10-2010, 10:31 AM

the problem is I'm not too confident in the capabilities of vets sometimes. i wish i had a vet friend

meisen · #7 12-13-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli

the problem is I'm not too confident in the capabilities of vets sometimes. i wish i had a vet friend

Hope your wheeleri is doing better man.

I totally hear you about vets, the combination of someone who sees few (or no) reptiles and the mindset of a doctor "authority figure" is often a terrible combination. I have had/heard of vets prescribing absolutely medieval courses of treatment based on what I can only assume they read in a book published 40-50 years ago.....or just made up on the spot

Just working with reptiles for a while gives most folks considerable insight and experiences. Especially if you have a chance to work/talk with a vet who does herps specifically. Remember many "all-pet" vets barely had a few weeks on herps in their training (at best). While they often (usually) have a great theoretical knowledge of how to go about treating an animal, their practical knowledge with herps is often near zero. My vet friends actually call me to get my thoughts about fish and herp related things. I mostly try to help from a husbandry perspective which 90% of the time is why they are seeing an animal in the first place. It's great to be able to build some currency in helping them out for when I need help myself. One thing I will say about every vet I know, they are nearly all smart as a tack (harder to get into than med school) and the best ones are willing/able to ask advice when their knowledge comes up short. And they are very loose with info as in you will learn tons just chatting them up.

Anyway, yes its time to get some friends who are vets Oli

Isn't there a leo breeder who is a DVM in your neck of the woods? See if the NYTTS has any herp friendly vets either amongst its members or by referral....I am almost sure there are at least a few who are members or were when I was a member anyway. They might be willing to check out your knobbie just for the novelty of seeing one

Could also just be worth just paying the visit fee if you source a competent herp vet for future advice, especially if you get a good one you can pump for info.
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meisen · #8 12-13-2010, 10:18 PM

BTW the symptoms you are describing could possibly be caused by gout..... the legs swollen (at the joints?) and with reduced motility is a classic sign. It can be caused by over mineralization of tissues but also by not enough water, too high temps, too much vitamin supplement etc. Dont know anything about it in knobbies admittedly but we'd see iguanas with it all the time with the swollen joints. Sometimes we'd see bulging eyes as well with it. For the igs it was very often the matrix of:

too much protein in their diet/being kept too dry/not enough UV light/metabolic bone disease/in proper Ca:P ratios etc etc etc. A lot of tortoises get it (and pyramiding of the shell) as well but its not as obvious due to their limbs being partially hidden.

Basically gout is an over accumulation of uric acid in the system whereby it precipitates out as actual crystals in the tissue. Its usually caused by a) too much protein/AA in the diet or b) a physical or hormonal inability to eliminate proper amounts of UA. The crystals cause pain and swelling at the affected joints and can damage organs if allowed to progress. Its usually treated (in humans) with a combination of drugs and dietary restrictions.

For an insectivourous lizard to get it seems less likely but its an idea anyway.

oli · #9 12-21-2010, 10:48 AM

Mark, that looks to be what is going on here with my female wheeleri. Thanks for that info, afterwards I read up on gout and this seems to be the situation. In an attempt to reduce further damage i have been misting her often, feeding her a bit less and not dusting her prey, and i will give her some fluid injections in the future to see if there is any progress in her condition.

meisen · #10 12-21-2010, 01:22 PM

I forget what the drug is but there is something that they can inject near the joints that helps with the breakdown of UA. No idea the application on your lizard but it might be worth a call to a herp friendly vet.

Any chance she is impacted or otherwise not pooping and thus not eliminating Uric Acid properly?