[Bowfinger]

Ok, I am on hold about brevipalmatus in this group, but I do still find obvious traits dissimilar. Does anyone see the difference in these two males, and is it significant?

[WildEyeReptiles]

Try to post pics of these two from the top (together maybe?), also post some of the females you have that are different. It might help.

-L

[Bowfinger]

I will be working up a more detailed post with females included and many close ups to see scale differences on back as well. Just have to get some free time here. I will mostly focus on vents and back scales and take snout to vent lengths.

[WildEyeReptiles]

What lens did you use for that shot? 60mm?

[Bowfinger]

yes the 60mm macro. I have to figure out how to pull more detail messing with the stop speed if possible???, otherwise consider other options as I am not happy with my results just yet. After I get bored with trying to figure it out myself I will pull the book out. I use a new(so its clear n clean) 9"circ.x6"tall clear tub to keep them in, lay on the floor under the coffee table w. them on the edge and snap away till I get good shots.

[Leah]

Does anyone else have a terrible time logging in? I had to make a new user name!

Anyway, I took pics of the undersides of mine to look at, but I am 99% positive all of mine are Elok even without looking at the pores.

[Bowfinger]

I wish I could see femoral pores on a brevipalmatus to know what I am looking for...do femoral pores run only on the legs or are they at times just in vent area; what determines a femoral pore and can they be microscopic?? We need to get some confirmed brevipalmatus from Thailand, as elok is not from there and that might help.

[WildEyeReptiles]

Brevis should have enlarged femoral scales (regardless of the pores for this purpose) and elok should not. From your pics it would appear that neither have enlarged femoral scales(the top one might, I cant tell from the photo). Its possible you are looking at a locality difference.

[Bowfinger]

I also did some caliper measurements of SVL lengths and find at least two females well past data for both elok and brevipalmatus, one at 84mm and the other female could not get her head strait but she is slightly larger. The data listed for elok= 56-68mm and for brevipalmatus=64-73mm. I am really confused now.

Of course I am doing all this very sparingly as my time is focused on other projects for work right now. Thats why I am jumping around...I see a gecko laid out strait I go measure, then back to work.

[WildEyeReptiles]

You have to keep in mind that the species descriptions dont normally take into account various locality differences. Size could very well be a locality difference.