Distinctions between С.pulchellus and C.intermedius

Badger · #1 12-02-2007, 04:46 PM

Two days ago I have received the shipment with wc Cyrtodactylus. Some of them was labelled by supplier as "C.pulchellus" and another six (2.4) as "C.intermedius". However I have not found any essential distinctions between them. All of them looked as pulchellus. However earlier I did not see alive intermedius, only a photo. It has forced me to undertake special research how reliably to distinguish these species.
Based on E.H.Taylor's key for Thailand members of Cyrtodactylus (The lizards of Thailand, 1963) C.pulchellus have both preanal and femoral pores. Thus medially located scales with preanal pores (up to 9) form two parallel rows with so-called precloacal groove between them, and then each row revers laterally under a corner about 90 degrees, being closed with row of femoral pores. So all scales with pores form _I I_ - shape structure. The presence of such structure was supported also by other recently published articles seen by me.
Opposite this C.intermedius have not precloacal groove and also lack femoral pores (it has only a row of enlarged femoral scales without pores). So all scales with pores form /\ - shape structure (with a corner slightly less than 180 degrees) at this species.
My friend and colleague Roman Nazarov has kindly given to me photos of reliably identified Cyrtodactylus from a collection of the Californian Academy of Sciences (CAS) (see below: the first two is C.pulchellus, the next three is C.intermedius). These photos as a whole correspond with situation described above with exception that on a photo of C.pulchellus it is not possible to find out preanal pores on scales forming pecloacal groove.
The geckoes received by me (both labelled as "pulchellus" and "intermedius") completely correspond to attributes of C.pulchellus including the presence of preanal pores on scales forming preanal groove. According to that all of them are C.pulchellus (so I am still hav'nt C.intermedius

).
Thus it seems that these two species easily differ with a structure of preanal area. I have intentionally left other attributes of scalation and coloration because their measurement is more labour-consuming and/or more subjective. Also the attribute being easily used in field by unknowlidged person was necessary to me to attempt receive more precisely labelled geckoes from my supplier. However always there is an opportunity that a problem not so clear than it seems and any unusual combination of scalation of preanal area can be observed. In this connection I shall be glad if members of a forum which keep one or both this species will inform on a structure of preanal area of their geckoes (with providing photos if possible). Thanks.

Bowfinger · #2 12-02-2007, 09:38 PM

I am by no mean an expert on the two species, but I do have both. I have found it difficult to try and distinguish through vent study on my end but when you do have the two in person alive and healthy they are 100% distinguishable. The pulchellus are more rough in skin texture and slightly bulkier. I will include pictures ASAP. I do think they can cross, but do not have proof just yet. If so I am sure they do in the wild adding to the confusion along with sub-species.

Bowfinger · #3 12-02-2007, 09:46 PM

pulchellus skin...

Bowfinger · #4 12-02-2007, 09:49 PM

intermedius...

pulchellus...

-Shane

Pierre · #5 12-03-2007, 03:53 AM

i'm not an expert too,but i do have several specimens of both species 100% healthy.
i believe there is no V shape marking on intermedius snout,where as pulchellus has.
also general appareance and pattern aren't exactly the same.maybe intermedius are more "willowy" shaped,with subdued white/yellow lines on their back.

C.intermedius:

C.pulchellus:

i can provide more pictures and explanations, if you need some.

Pierre

Bowfinger · #6 12-03-2007, 11:58 AM

The only thing is some pulchellus have the v shape some have a - - shape and some do not have any line at all on the snout depending on local. Also color variation can get fairly close in some individuals....but typically that works.

Pierre · #7 12-03-2007, 01:00 PM

well,Shane,you're absolutely right.
but as you said almost everything in your previous posts,difficult to add some more reliable informations.
i hope all that together will help Igor to find out what he finally have.

i think i know about the - - shape,if you talk about a "beginning of a V shape which is not complete" like this / \ , but much shorter.
about the no snout mark locale,i have only one "form"from Malaysia(see pic).

yes, general coloration between intermedius and pulchellus could be close on some individuals,that's why i said "maybe".

i face my lack of english language...that would be much more easy in French...

did you notice any eye colors difference between the two species and pulchellus locales??

Pierre

WildEyeReptiles · #8 12-03-2007, 01:20 PM

Here are some photos to think about...

"intermedius"

If you look closely, you can see the little "V" shape that shouldnt be there on an intermedius, but it is there.

Here is what I am nearly certain is an integrade, a WC subadult:

Pulchellus:

And a few of that pair's offspring:

Another pulchellus:

Bowfinger · #9 12-04-2007, 02:53 AM

The differences are amazing. I sometimes feel I am just speculating without strong field study. These have to be the most visibly diverse Cyrtodactylus. I can just see these being the next pop gecko with a little work