[Geitje]

Javed,

Also a thanks for your input here. Your unique position of being in India to provide insight into their habitat is useful in this thread.

<<<I donot think the species prefers dark places,but that is a natural behaviour elicted by a nocturnal species.>>>

I have to disagree with you completely. Why do they not prefer dark areas? Have you seen them basking? Setting in open areas during the day, either in your terrariums or in nature? Have you bred this species in your country? Have you bred other local species for comparison? If so, please give further insight into your successes and why you think they do not need a dark terrarium. I only want to clarify this for the sake of future discussion. My past experiences have been that if a great discussion is going forward and a point of disagreement is not clarified then there will be confusion, more debate and of course I'll be getting future emails from people telling me that I'm wrong - even in the case where I have bred the species (maybe one of the only people in the world) in question.

When comparing a lot of other gecko species that I've bred over the last 28 years, I have seen a lot of "nocturnal" (generally applied to anything with vertical eye pupils) species that actually do benefit from added light for various (light cycle, heating, basking, etc.) reasons. Many "nocturnal" species are, in fact, diurnal such as members of the genera Ptyodactylus. Furthermore, I've observed many "nocturnal" species in nature basking during the day (ex. Ptyodactylus sp.'s, Tarentola sp's, Hemidactylus sp's and even several Pachydactylus species). Therefore, many of these species can be kept in illuminated terrariums in captivity, and almost invariably benefit from it. However, I've also kept several species in terrariums/bred and seen in nature that do not bask and thereby do not benefit from light and in fact will exhibit stress behaviors when exposted to light (ex. uncovered, kept in illuminated terrariums, etc.).

Weighed against several hundreds of species I've bred over the years, I can definitely say that this G. albofasciatus is light sensitive. The animals have repeatedly screamed upon being uncovered or disturbed. They always run for a dark crevice, cork tube or other very dark area. Also, a dark terrarium proved instrumental in getting them to settle down and ultimately breed.

Again, I only wanted to say this to clarify what i meant by dark terrarium and why.

Thanks,

Jon

[conus]

Greetings friend,no offense taken at all mate.I believe there has been a misconception here.My statement merely meant that this species along with G .deccanensis is nocturnal and even a retreat/hiding place during the day will suffice without taking drastic measures of painting the bottom black.Also most geckos,especially Hemidactylus sp. will hunt for prey at daytime if its not extremely hot,they tend to do this more often on cloudy days.My pair of G. deccanensis lies out in the open all day long day or night.Warm regards,Javed Ahmed.

[conus]

Dear Oliver,your enclosure is beautiful.May i know what substrate you use?I would suggest using vermicompost(not vermiculite) as it is antifungal and retains moisture very well.Also provide some rocks as a hiding and egg deposition site.Maintain high temperatures of 28-29 C at daytime and 24-25 C at night.As mentioned in my G. deccanensis post,this species will breed year round if conditions are favourable.Warm regards,Javed Ahmed.

[Uroplatus]

Thank you Javed!

I use flower soil, i think its related to vermicompost.
I use the flower soil economically. Because I do not find so the eggs probably, I have a corner always damp and spray each day 1-2 times. I try to hold the Terrarium simply to have the control about them.

Apparently it gives between deccanensis and albofasciata a behavior difference. My animals live during the day hidden and at night see I them also rarely.

Greetings!

[Geitje]

Originally Posted by conus

My statement merely meant that this species along with G .deccanensis is nocturnal and even a retreat/hiding place during the day will suffice without taking drastic measures of painting the bottom black..Warm regards,Javed Ahmed.

My experiences contradict your experiences 180 degrees. Initially, I kept my G. albofasciata in lighted terrariums. They seemed to do fine, however, they were very high strung and nervous. After about 2 months, I decided to put the animals into a 14" X 16" X 18" (tall) terrarium with concrete-lined walls that had been dyed black (to simulate dark rock outcrops) to help keep the terrarium darker. The lights were also eliminated. I noticed an increase in activity, a decrease in stressed behaviors and shortly thereafter 2 gravid females. Prior to this when the terrariums were lighted, upon feeding or watering the male (and occasionally females) would charge out of a crevice vocalizing very loudly and waving his tail. My natural assumption would be that the animal preferred a much larger and darker hide.

Yes, it's true that many nocturnal geckos and other animals will freely move during the day. However, seeing the change from a lighted terrarium and stressed animals to a dark terrarium with non-stressed animals (and multiple clutches of eggs), leads me to believe it prudent to offer such conditions to minimize visual stressors for this species.

Moreover, there is never "one perfect and only way" to breed a given species. We can only use other people's experiences as a blue print to work from (ex. Hemitheconxy taylori) and hopefully gain more insight into more idealistic conditions to offer our animals. Gecko husbandry is constantly evolving, and again there is never only one way to keep a species.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the natural micro-habitat of G. albofaciata and perhaps a description of the spots where these animals are found during the day and night in your area. Moist rock outcrops? What colored rocks? What type (s) of rock? What type of soil? Have you taken day/night temperature readings? Closed canopy forest, - or - exposed rocky area that allows the animals to bask (should they choose to do so)? Do you know, or perhaps can speculate, on their natural diet? What other gecko species are found in the same habitat?

Thanks again for sharing,

Jon

[conus]

Dear Jon,while I firmly believe in their being multiple routes to sucess,I strongly disagree with your providence of chicken egg shell as a calcium source for G. albofasciatus as the (eventually) rotting egg shells shall only be a place for harmful bacteria and fungus to grow,leading to nasty infections.I donot believe that geckos in the wild feed on eggs or egg shells of any kind,let alone chicken eggs,getting their required calcium quota from devouring a myriad of insect prey(insects posess a chitinous exoskeleton).We are afterall,discussing geckos,not budgies.Just my two pence,Javed Ahmed.

[conus]

Secondly,both G. albofasciatus as well as G. deccanensis are strictly nocturnal creatures,emitting high pitched squawks and screeching if surprised or otherwise shocked and will do so if suddenly disturbed.Hence,even a warm and humid,unlit terrarium,furnished with dead branches and rocks would be,in my opinion most satisfactory and if favourable captive conditions are maintained always,I donot see why this species shouldnot breed year round in captivity as G. deccanensis,here in Bombay breed year round.Lastly,its one thing to have gravid females,another to get a succesful hatch.Warm regards,Javed Ahmed.

[conus]

Dear Uroplatus,You are most welcome my friend.It seems that both G. deccanensis and G. albofasciatus are shy,nocturnal animals.Howeve individual temperments can and do vary.The principal difference between these other wise closely allied geckos being the high humidity requirement of Geckoella albofasciatus.All the best with your pair.Warm regards,Javed Ahmed.

[Bowfinger]

Javed Ahmed,
I have been observing this discussion and am really trying to learn something from this and will not get into the debate portion of the conversation. With that said, I would like to know how long you have had these geckos in your collection with breeding success, and/or do you know of anyone breeding second generation or 1+ year in captivity individuals? I know from experience, it is easy to get 1st year captives to "perform" their duties, yet stop breeding after time under stressful or inadequate conditions.

[Geitje]

Originally Posted by conus

Dear Jon,while I firmly believe in their being multiple routes to sucess,I strongly disagree with your providence of chicken egg shell as a calcium source for G. albofasciatus as the (eventually) rotting egg shells shall only be a place for harmful bacteria and fungus to grow,leading to nasty infections.I donot believe that geckos in the wild feed on eggs or egg shells of any kind,let alone chicken eggs,getting their required calcium quota from devouring a myriad of insect prey(insects posess a chitinous exoskeleton).We are afterall,discussing geckos,not budgies.Just my two pence,Javed Ahmed.

Dear Javed (and others in order to keep simple husbandry facts straight),

First and foremost, apparently the phonograph has skipped to a different verse on the record. We were discussing lighting and somehow sling-shotted off to calcium supplementation and budgies.

Your two pence has missed this point in my original post - "to provide crushed chicken egg shells once a week, and they foul up after a few days due to the elevated humidity levels of the enclosure, so discard them after a couple of days if not eaten". (fouling up after a few days - yet discarding them after a couple is BEFORE they go bad)
* Next (obvious) point - Yes, nearly all calcareous egg laying species (that would be defined as those gecko species outside of the Aleuroscalabotinae, Diplodactylinae and Eublepharinae - that lay soft egg shells) routinely consume hatched egg shells - particularly the egg shell fragments from eggs of it's own species. Females of many gecko species have been documented returning to communal egg laying areas and witnessed eating egg fragments. In your own country Calodactylodes aureus has been observed doing just that. In fact, this species has been documented with a full lizard egg in its stomach contents! Numerous other references appear in the literature. In captivity nearly all species will do the same if you simply throw the egg shells back in with the egg producing female. Additionally, species of Gekkoninae have evolved endolyphatic sacs - to store excess calcium (ex. when egg fragments are available) in their necks for use later on when needed.
* The next obvious point you missed - my mentioning of other Geckoella keepers outside of India having calcium problems with their females. Some calcium-based item should be added to the artificial diet in captivity to balance the inbalance.
* Another point to consider - geckos are categorically the only lizards that lay calcareous eggs. A chicken egg, or "budgies" (?), are also calcareous eggs. Geckos eat calcareous egg shells and if you do not have any eggs from your first breeding of Geckoella - offer them some chicken egg shells instead.
* Final point - I've kept and bred numerous gecko species over the last 28 years, Geckoella included, and I've never had a single infection or problem due to offering chicken egg shells to geckos in captivity. Nearly all reproductively active females will voluntarily eat it. I raise my own chickens, harvest the eggs for human consumption, keep the egg shells and grind them up and offer them to most of my 250 species of geckos that I presently keep. I've did that for nearly 30 years and it works.

If you still do not believe that geckos routinely consume hatched egg shell fragments, please visit the Calodactylodes in your country and tell them they are not supposed to visit their communal egg laying spots and eat the egg shells and see what they have to say about it. They are, afterall, a very vocal species

Looking forward to the natural history notes, and just keepin the facts straight,

Jon
ps. I just double-checked my original post and my introductory sentence stated "these are a few of my observations and experiences". They've worked and produced offspring. Why pick apart a recipe for success without putting forward your own experiences?