[conus]

Dear Jon,your comment and feedback with regard to Calodactylodes returning to their egg laying site to feed on hatched egg shells,is greatly appreciated,as i was not privy to this bit of information.I am currently working and concentrating only on Hemidactylus,Geckoella and Cnemaspis species in India.Calodactylodes species donot occur in Bombay and either ways I am not presently working on them,however once again,the information is deeply appreciated.In your original post,you mention "egg shells spoil after a few days.......must be removed after a couple of days"....in my opinion,few days and couple of days mean the same thing and i request you to edit and clearly explain the technique of offering egg shells in your original post as you did in your reply to me,as in the future it is likely to lead to confusion and stinking terrariums(newbies) and invite more critical feedback.I dilute calcium additives in the geckos drinking water,have never offered egg shells,as I didnt know of this technique earlier,and yet have NEVER ENCOUNTERED any calcium defeciency in my geckos.I personally believe this is a relatively fuss free and less cumbersome technique of offering calcium.Also while Calodactylodes and species from other genus are know to return to mass egg laying sites to consume egg shells,this doesnot occur in Geckoella sp,in the wild,and is so far only reported in captivity.So there are more than one ways to skin a cat...or should i say Geckoella albofasciatus,so to say .Secondly,you didnot read my second post which deals with lighting issues and "ideal" terrarium for the species.Read it.In it,i clearly mention that both G. deccanensis and G. albofasciatus are shy, nocturnal species,which need an unlit terrarium,however there is no need to take the extreme steps you seem to have taken.Once again read my post for details.Third,no offense was meant to your knowledge or expertise in herpetology/herpetoculture..I feel there is a lot you can teach us owing to your vast experience and exposure.However I also feel that there is a lot you can learn too,from someone elses' experiences,for instance i learnt of a new way to offer calcium,just as you shall learn of a simpler method of setting up and maintaining a terrarium for G. albofasciatus,if you chose to follow it.Third,the herpetocultural hobby DOESNOT exist in India,so to speak.Only a few interested folks like myself and Zeeshan Mirza along with a few others practice it,so a bit of help rather than flaming from experienced members like yourself shall be deeply appreciated.Together i am sure we can learn a lot,especially how to care most optimally for our charges in captivity.Warm regards,Javed Ahmed and Zeeshan Mirza aka Conus and Naja.

[Uroplatus]

Thanks everyone for input!

I can speak for myself that the animals are somewhat light-sensitive, similarly as Goniurosaurus, because they are strictly night active. In addition, Goniurosaurs have eye lids, thus see one if them sleeping and relax.
Unfortunately it is not possible with our favourites. A dayrythm (photosynthese) is surely necessarily. If the geckos constantly sitting in the dark it comes inevitably still to more stress. We as humans need turned the dark over to realx and sleep. I am also the opinion that the animals feel with indirect/lower lighting better. Probably the UV-radiation (maybe only laminar) is very high by the altitudes in the habitat. Field studies would be terribly interesting! The minimized dosage of radiation in captivity must be able to estimate everyone. Under attention of day/night rythm.

At first I had broken ceramic plates in the enclosure, whereupon the basking spot radiated very brightly and warmly, the animals sat always both under it. One has then the ceramic plate take up, they running both screaming into the next dark hiding place.

The dark painted walls I hold for a good idea, like Jon already mentioned for the camouflage of the animals. Apart from the fact that my animals never took up chickeneggfragments (I use snails, i assume they eat them), the only bacterial stove are the geckoclosets they put on in the humid enviroment. Geckoclosets similarly as Eublepharis macularius do it.

2 Jon:
Where did the females the eggs hide, are they really sticky and is the consistency very fragile?

[Geitje]

Dear Javed and others,

One of the biggest challenges of an online forum that brings together many people from many different countries with many different ideas and approaches to husbandry/field experiences is making a unified arguement on how to singularly approach a given species. The obvious elements that will effect our different approaches are - supplements used, water and trace minerals, insects used, frequency of feedings, types of terrarium, and health of our breeding stock to have started with.

Everyone has their own approach. Everyone should share their approach, particularly when it is time-tested and successful over a period of years or decades. Generally speaking, I do not like to publish breeding results for a given species until I have bred them routinely for a number of years. Shane (a.k.a. Bowfinger) hinted at that in his post above.

It's interesting you have not experienced calcium problems with this species in India, and I'm sure everyone on this thread truly appreciates your input here. However, this is not the case with this species in Europe and the USA. While there are very few Geckoella in captivity, there have been a few reports (and that's a hefty percentage of the keepers) of animals ailing from lack of calcium. Two things effect metabolic bone disease - 1. lack of calcium, or improper mineral balances in the artificial diet. 2. A more slight lack of calcium coupled with stress (physical or environmental). Inadequate calcium uptake in the diet of a gecko when factored with stress frequently results in neurological and motor skill problems (ex. hyperspastic paralysis = that episode where the gecko flails around, like a fish out of water, and then goes into paralysis). That leaves the Geckoella keeper with two thoughts - 1. increase calcium in the diet. 2. Remove stressors and monitor for further things that stress them. I've noticed these creatures seem to be light sensitive. Keeping them in a dark, unlit terrarium will allow them to settle down quicker.

<<<Also while Calodactylodes and species from other genus are know to return to mass egg laying sites to consume egg shells,this doesnot occur in Geckoella sp,in the wild,and is so far only reported in captivity.>>>

We only ASSUME it does not happen. It seems sufficient to speculate that they do not set around like a Calodactylodes and eat egg shell fragments from the ceilings of caves at their leisure whenever they feel the neuro-skitzies and get the urge to beef-up their calcium stores. However, the emerging juveniles of several other egg-buring gecko species frequently thrash around during the egg-hatching process and thereby bring themselves (and their egg shell fragments) to the surface. I'm sure that the egg shell fragments are consumed whenever available. Otherwise, the females in captivity would not be drawn, perhaps by natural instinct, to do so.

I should also clarify my concrete-lined with black dye walls. Anyone who has seen my collection can testify to the fact that I texture the walls of ALL of my terrariums (and that's hundreds of terrariums), so it's not that special of an approach to me. It's an important visual barrier so that my various gecko species are not always in visual contact with other species, thereby reducing visual stressors. I've even went further in painting the walls, ceiling and floor of my gecko rooms a very dark color so that the animals cannot see me well either from the insides of their terrariums!

There is a lot I can learn, and I'm not afraid to ask questions when I want to learn. I have asked several questions relating to the natural history of this species, since I do not have the answers. I have made it a point for over 25 years to visit many countries and species in my life. I feel that just as much (if not more) information about a given species can be gleaned from an animal in nature, as can be made from the captivity side of things. If i had nothing to learn, you would not find any question marks in my replies I would also never travel again.

Not sure in India, or elsewhere, but a couple generally refers to the number 2 (as in a married couple...although some cultures that might mean more than 2); whereas a few generally refers to 3 or more.

I think everyone here can embrace your interest, ideas, and help here along with your pioneering ideas of establishing herpetoculture in India. Despite debate of animals we're both passionate about, I frequently feel compelled to just keep the facts straight - even when there might be more than one way to skin the cat. My posts are definitely NOT intended to leave you with the feeling of being flamed, only to enter debate so that we all understand ourselves clearly.

Perhaps in separate threads you can share your experiences with Indian Hemidactylus. I keep - m. maculatus, giganteus, t. triedrus, subtriedrus, prashadi, leschenaulti, a cryptic fresnatus-like form and 3 brooki-type forms from your country. I would be interested to read your comments about your experiences with them in captivity OR in the field. Your comments and ideas are always welcomed,

Jon
ps. OliverThe females have always deposited the eggs at the base of vertically oriented dark stones that form a crevice. The substrate there is about 8-10cm deep and is a mixture slightly moist sand and loamy soil. The eggs are normally laid together (not glued together) at a depth of about 2cm. The eggs are quite strong (a special thanks goes to my chickens!) and take between 5-8 months to hatch!

[Mikhail F. Bagaturov]

Interesting discussion here, friends.
I tend to agree with Jon, my dear friend Javed Ahmed, as like in the theraphosid spiders and many other wild animals, it is mostly unuseful but sometimes even injurious to modulate 100% nature condition for the species. Captivity has it's strong specific that sometimes it is funny to note how things differ with animals from the same in nature.
Anyway, every point from the experience is valid and I believe that many animals live and reproduct well in very wide spectrum of conditions as it is depends on various characters.

[Bowfinger]

I would like to add that I found it very interesting and not at all overkill to "blacken" the walls and substrate. Dabbling in lighting design in the past, black paint was widely used for theatrical purposes to darken the room,..and it did make a significant difference. Obviously we can't make a cage to simulate deep cavities of who knows how many feet they occupy the majority of the time. Many geckos go over 5 feet deep on a regular basis, who knows the depth these guys will go without a tracking device...
As for the chicken eggs, that one did make me think, but with the last explanation it makes sense to me and from a nutritional point makes more sense now than powder mix as ratios would be exact if not close, I will just clean the eggs first.
On a side note, I have two species of cyrtodactylus that also seem to prefer caves,depth,rocky habitat etc.(probably limestone in both cases), and it is a little difficult keeping their calcium levels up unlike my other cyrtodactyl's.

[Uroplatus]

Yesterday I pasted the side panels of my enclosure completely with black foil and surprisingly I could observe the female for 2 weeks the first time again. Coincidence? Times look which the next days bring.

I think myself that open calcium (sepia bones, calcium d3 powder, chickeneggfragments) also in damp nature not for a long time hold and in such way in other form exist must be exist. I think that in the damper habitat of G. albofasciata different snails occur. Do you know something over it Javed?

I offer now also a bowl with calcium water to the animals. One of the most important points is probably also the supply of crickets with sufficiently calcium. Bulb plants (Onionplants i guess) contain very much calcium. Like all bulb plants allium contains the mineral materials potassium, calcium and iron. Also the content of vitamin B6, Niacin, vitamin K, pro vitamin A and vitamin C are considerable. Green vegetable, like broccoli or spinach contains still more calcium. With the admission of calcium must additionally on a sufficient supply at vitamin D (mushrooms contain much vitamin D) be respected. Particularly that the animals probably not sun bathing.
Additives in propellant form (powderform) load additionally also the kidneys, so that natural products should be preferred. I know from Gekko g.gecko that they eat the empty eggshells.

Beautiful weekend for you all!

[conus]

My dear friends Mikhail and Uroplatus and also Jon and bowfinger,my apologies for not replying as I was in Matheran,studying the Geckoella complex.I read and appreciate all the replies and comments/feedbacks.I believe that G. albofasciatus and G. deccanensis donot feed on snails in the wild,even Uroplatus says he assumes his charges to eat the snails he provides.Second,an unlit,warm humid temperature works wonders with G. albofasciatus,it does for me,without painting the bottom/sides black.Try it.Thank you Jon , I will post the data you requested.Mikhail,want to tell you some very interesting news Warm regards,Javed Ahmed.

[Uroplatus]

Hey dudes!

The black coloured side panels seem to have a positively affect on the geckos. Certainly the female is more active and my movements in front ot the
enclosure do not seem to disturb she. Less shy. But through the black skin i cant see any eggs.

I give 5 - 7 small snails for 3 months weekly to the enclosure. If I look today into the setup I can only with trouble perhaps 10 pieces find. In addition clearly less crickets eaten. From there my acceptance is that the females eat snails! My G.albofasciata female is huge!

[conus]

Dear Uroplatus,I am extremely happy to hear this so wonderful news and glad that the technique worked out well for you just as my calcium addition to drinking water technique works out well for me.Indeed more than one way to skin the cat.I hope your pair flourishes.Warm regards,Javed Ahmed.

[Uroplatus]

Thank you for your friendly words Conus!

However I generally could not observe ever a food intake.
Try to find out nevertheless if animals from the deccanensis complex (except albofasciata) eat snails. Maybe the ones from Matheran or Yours from Bombay. Where does lie the natural calcium-pours?