[chocolatecolubrid]

I didn't want to hijack Biohazard's thread so started a new one.

Red tegu, I am no expert, but I disagree with your comment that "lichtenfelderi never have spots but some hiananensis do but ive never seen hiananensis with spots that well deffined. not even on lowlands." To the best of my knowledge both species can be similarly marked/coloured, though hainanensis can be more variable in my experience.

Firstly, according to "The Eyelash Geckos" by Kirschner & Seufer Verlag (referring to lichtenfelderi here, also described as the Norway leopard gecko):
"The upper side (of head and truck) is chocolate brown, and indistinctly speckled with dark brown spots. The belly is light grey, with dark spots on its edges...... While distinguishing from G araneus, G bawanglingensis, G luii and G kuroiwae-group is still considerably easy, it is hard to differentiate from G hainanensis; especially since features used so far (..) have either proven useless or too variable (...). Of all the 31 features listed for the species Goniurosaurus by Grismer (2002), the Norway leopard gecko differs in only one feature from the Hainan leopard gecko (hainanensis) and that is the number of eyelid fringe scales." It goes on to list a few other, less obvious differences.

Here are photos of some of my hainanensis, just to show you the different marking varieties I have:

One pair caught in the act:


And a 2007 baby of their's:


My other adult female (she has a similarly marked partner):


And her 2007 baby:


Now an adult male lichtenfelderi I recently purchased as part of a breeding group from a well respected member of this forum - the others are all similarly marked:


The top 2 hainanensis photos are showing prime nighttime colouration, whereas the rest of the images are taken during daytime colours, but the latter hainanensis pair are almost indistinguishable from the lichtenfelderi, day or night.

[Geckos and Goannas]

I back down. and after seeing you photos i agree with you. I guess the only pics of lichtenfelderi ive seen are almost pure black with a very few spots. but your hianans are the fist ones ive seen with spoting like that. at least we can agree theyre deffintly not luii. nice pics.

[chocolatecolubrid]

I guess it can depend on the age and condition of the gecko, and also the photography - the first time I ever seen a photo of a hainanensis it was pure black with the orange bands, but it turned out that the goni was a hatchling, which hatch darker anyway, and it was photographed on a white background which made the dark stand out more.

I must admit I prefer that form of hainanensis compared to the lichtenfelderi-like form. In my opinion they are nicer in their night colours than the other

[Geckos and Goannas]

yeah ive never seen it before. maybe that blood line isnt in the US. i have the lich look-a-likes and the male is almost pure black.

[Brian]

You know I've had siblings hatch that each looked like a different "form".

[eagle1]

Currently I've proven 1.1 Litch...

I've bought a 0.1 in Hamm@December, but.. shed after shed, is even more different from my other pair.

I've checked for the differences on "Eyelash Gecko", asked on Internet, but everything is "foggy"...

Now I see this photos.. I'm more confused than ever...

BTW, I've bought a pair of hainanensis from a good friend.. ready to breed. I'll compare my suspect Lich/Hainan to this pair..

[bigchin]

I've got siblings and they look nothing like each other. One has more spots, the other has hardly any. I can't tell a damn things except I have 2 males and one female at 8 months.
Great pics.
CK

[chocolatecolubrid]

Originally Posted by Brian

You know I've had siblings hatch that each looked like a different "form".

So do you believe in the different "forms" Brian? What does everyone else think? Are they just natural colour variations that have no specific locale, or is it something more? I often wonder are some of the variations appearing due to captive breeding?

I know this is a very cloudy area for a lot of hainanensis owners, there is very little info on it from what I gather.

[Brian]

Well what I think it that regardless of the population structure in the wild it may not be possible to diagnose forms in captivity with reliablely.

[bigchin]

Well, here are some pics of my babies I hatched last year. They are about 8 months old now. The first clutch look alike, but the 3rd baby from same parents looks different.
CK
PS- I can't load pics due to size. I've resized 10 times, but it still tells me it's too big.