View Poll Results: OK to cross Patternless red bicolor (son) x Cream brindle (mom) + offspring?

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  • OK to breed (no genetic ramifications) + offspring: patternless/bicolor red

    1 100.00%
  • OK to breed (no genetic ramifications) + offspring: NOT red

    0 0%
  • NOT OK to breed

    0 0%
  • Breed w/ caution: result in F1 defects

    0 0%
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  1. #1
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    May 2019
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    Default BREEDING - Crested Gecko: Bicolor Red (son) x Cream Brindle (mom)


    I know this topic has been brought up a lot in the past, whether or not itís ethical to inbreed geckos. Iíve read multiple posts here and on Pangea forums where some say inbreeding is ok if not done for multiple successive generations (F1, F2, F3 etc). The argument that condones inbreeding is that almost all current specific morphs (large crests, big head, certain colors etc) are all a result of inbreeding. Iíve also read that cresties are basically all inbred and genetically resistant to inbreeding mutations. The rationale is that they originate from an island which reduces the population and genetic diversity. Then approx 200 cresties were distributed globally, further reducing the gene pool yet no albinos have been produced. And in the wild, esp in a small geographical region like an island, thereís bound to be some inbreeding.

    Iím not here to discuss the ethics of inbreeding. I want to know if I do so, will a specific morph be produced and if there will be genetic defects in F1 generation. I read some breedersí pages and some articles stating to selectively breed for a specific trait, itís ok to breed a son back to its mom or a daughter back to its father. Ethically, it makes my stomach turn but the arguments make sense. Basically all captive-bred cresties are related to one another and since they lived on an island, theyíre likely inbreeding naturally if left in their normal habitat.

    I donít planning on breeding them- to each other or anyone else- for at least 6mo. The sonís losing weight (I think he smells my females) and isnít the right weight to breed. Iím unsure of the momís last pairing. According to her previous owner, she had laid some duds in early March. I want to give her some time to cool down and relax. Not sure if sheíll lay more eggs, but Iíve had her since mid-March and only recently has she displayed some egg-laying behavior. They both have bioactive setups, but she also has a lay box.

    Hereís my pairing:

    Female (mother)
    -approx 6yrs old
    -fired up: cream brindle (very faint markings, almost looks white)
    -fired down: yellow brindle
    -poor crests (possibly from previous matings?)
    -normal head structure
    -weighs 38.77g (frog butt)

    Male (son)
    -approx 21mo old
    -fired up: brick red patternless bicolor (dorsal: taupe/lateral: brick red)
    -fired down: taupe, patternless
    -upturned crests
    -normal head structure
    -couple portholes; red blushing on cheeks
    -weighs 23g (with tail)
    *hes not ready to breed yet; heís lost weight recently I think due to smelling the females

    His sister (same parents) looked similar to him with nice blushing, but fired down she was a muddy brown patternless with hints of red. So the mom can def produce nice patternless brick/muddy reds. Father was a harlequin. I figure since momís a proven breeder and the son is a muddy/brick bicolor red, pairing them together will result in some offspring being a brighter, patternless red- more red than the son.

    The son and mom both have the best personalities and are super chill. They both like coming out of their tanks and will sit on a branch near the lid/door waiting for me to come by so they can hang out. They tolerate being handled very well (the son more than the mom). Theyíre active and curious. Mom is a petite pig, but not overweight. Son eats like heís a male model lol They occasionally will eat live insects, unlike my other cresties who love them. Theyíre more interested in their CGD (they were raised on Repashy and I introduced them to Pangea)

    Iíd love for their sweet dispositions to be passed on. From what Iíve read, the males typically provide the color of the offspring. I want to produce a vibrant patternless red/tangerine/pink. I know pairing cresties from a reputable breeder where the lineage has been red for generations will produce a red, but Iíd like to try my hand at breeding. Iím ready for 16 hatchlings and capable of caring for them (time, space, money), but I wonder if this is still frowned upon in the hobby.

    I know there are some ethical issues, as well as risk of genetic mutations, F1 carriers for defects not seen until F2, and concerns about adding subpar genetics to an already saturated and small gene pool. Iíd like to hear your thoughts, kindly, if this cross between a son and mother will result in a patternless red (albeit not a fire engine red, but potentially brighter than the son). I donít want to get into the ethics of this cross, but if the risk of a genetic mutation is high Iíd like to know.

    Appreciate your input
    Last edited by sunnysideup; 05-22-2019 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Updated title

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