[TongueInEye]

Ok so I posted about this on the dart frog site and they all hate me. I figured I see what you all thought, even though I'm guessing it's going to be negative as well. Doesn't hurt to ask.

The biggest concern is that everyone is positive the cresties will attack the frogs. Other concerns are that the humidity will be too high for the cresties and that's they'll get a respiratory infection. Another issue is managing the waste production of the cresties.

I'm in the process of constructing the tank, so my main interest was/is anything that can be done or not done to make this more successful if I decide to try it. If I do I'd wait until the frogs (leucs) are well established then add cresties as juveniles, feeding them repashy from bowls high in the system.

Anyway if you hate the idea, please don't flame me. I understand most folks are against any mixing period.

thanks!

[wyatt003]

I think your going to hit a problem with the humidity issue. Ive never kept dart frogs so this may be way off, but what ive read dart frogs need a constant 90%+. But good luck with it i hope it works. Im a fan of mixing species too, and have gotten bashed many times for it, but if it works and the research checks out, go for it.

[Palor]

I think the crested gecko would likely try to eat the dart frogs. One of mine tried to eat a house gecko that was on the outside of its tank.

I don't think it is worth the risk.

[Hilde]

Having extensive experience with cresties and darts, I say it's too much of a gamble. The humidity could definitely be too much for the geckos, but the big thing would be that you're mixing diurnal and nocturnal animals in a small space. In the wild there's enough room to hide and avoid the constant activity if you're trying to sleep, but in an enclosure it's hard to do. Even with hiding places, you'll still find there's a lot of disturbance while the active ones are poking their noses into the places where the others are sleeping.
It's not likely that the cresties will try to eat the darts since they're aware of the danger signalled by the bright colours (it's an almost universal thing - bright colours are warning signs, or imitators, but why risk it?).
There's also the chance of cresties landing/pouncing on the frogs accidentally and you've got to deal with an injured frog. Cresties are known to just jump without considering the consequences, so the frogs could be in real danger.

[TongueInEye]

Originally Posted by Hilde

The humidity could definitely be too much for the geckos,

To help moderate this, I was thinking about adding some fans in the top of the system. Another thought was to put a wire topper on the tank and separate the cresties, but still have plants, etc moving though both systems so it is still somewhat one system. The problem with this would be keeping the humidity high enough for the frogs, so I know I'd have to play around a lot first to get it right.

Originally Posted by Hilde

but the big thing would be that you're mixing diurnal and nocturnal animals in a small space. In the wild there's enough room to hide and avoid the constant activity if you're trying to sleep, but in an enclosure it's hard to do. Even with hiding places, you'll still find there's a lot of disturbance while the active ones are poking their noses into the places where the others are sleeping.

I'd hope to get the set-up so it's stratified enough that the geckos will keep themselves higher in the system and on ledges- off the ground levels with the frogs. Again if/when I do this, and they're both wanting to hang out all over each other, they'll be separated.

I understand there are a lot of "what-ifs" to the scenario. In almost every animal set-up, they never seem to think that the perfect spot you've designed for them is all that special. They certainly haven't read the books about what they should like. I'd do my best to be prepared for that.

[Hilde]

Originally Posted by TongueInEye

I'd hope to get the set-up so it's stratified enough that the geckos will keep themselves higher in the system and on ledges- off the ground levels with the frogs.

That will never happen with cresties, they're only semi-arboreal. There's nothing they like better than to curl up on the ground in some leaves. Even their colours and patterns help them 'disappear' in the ground litter. You might not have dead leaves in the enclosures, but as far as they're concerned, where there's a floor in the forest, there's leaf litter, so they must be blending in.

Some examples of how they love to sleep on the ground, frogs or no frogs.



Camouflaged, or what?


If you absolutely must have geckos and frogs, the only ones I would even consider using are gold dust day geckos or possibly one of the other smaller Phelsuma species. I do know of a few people who have them together and it works WITH A LOT OF CARE and attention. Some geckos had to be removed because they bugged the frogs (not eating, just attacking, seemingly territorial in nature).

[TongueInEye]

Nice pictures-- really had to look

Originally Posted by Hilde

If you absolutely must have geckos and frogs, the only ones I would even consider using are gold dust day geckos or possibly one of the other smaller Phelsuma species. I do know of a few people who have them together and it works WITH A LOT OF CARE and attention. Some geckos had to be removed because they bugged the frogs (not eating, just attacking, seemingly territorial in nature).

I haven't ruled out other species, but have heard horror stories about them being more apt to strike at a frog (or anything) while feeding on insects. The cresties interested me in part because they can be kept on a non-insect diet.

[Foster Reves]

Years ago I experimented with mixing some of the various species of Anolis that I kept with dart frogs. I never really ran into any problems that I can remember right off hand. The longest that I kept any of the two genera together was a 65 gallon vivarium that housed a trio of A. bahoruchoensis (I hope that I remembered how to spell that correctly) and a couple of tinc's that were together for about five years. It should be worth noting however that while the anoles reproduced I never did get anything out of the frogs. I'll have to say though that I agree with what most everyone else has told you. The health and safety of the animals should come first and aesthetic considerations second. Also, and this is just a personal quirk of mine, I am not a fan of mixing animals or plants from vastly different regions of the world. To me it just does not look right but again that is just my personal taste.
Chip

[sushigex]

There's also a general rule of thumb that if mixing species, it probably isn't a bad idea to make sure that the animals are from the same general location. Being that this is your second forum of which you have aired out this question with cautionary replies, maybe you should take the advice. Why not start by successfully keeping both species individually?

[Deadly_Kermit]

I already posted this same response when you raised the subject on Dendroboard.com, but "dart people" are kinda stuck up so I'll see what the "gecko people" have to say about it...

[ I agree that crested geckos would be a little intense for a dart frog enclosure, but that does not mean the mixing is ALWAYS a bad idea. I used to keep a 55 gal Pal with green anoles, fire bellied toads, reed frogs, flying geckos, some kind of salamander (I don't recall the species), and tropical fish. It was a challenge to keep it clean, and that is why it was eventually broken down, but there were no problems with interactions between the animals.

I am currently keeping 2.2 Banded leucs with 1.1 house geckos. There have been no problems thus far. The animals were all quarantined before being placed together and are always very closely watched for any signs of stress. The frogs and geckos completely ignore each other and they are all breeding (a good indication of being very comfortable in their enclosure).

Don't give up on the idea just because a lot of people on this forum told you not to... Most of them have had no experience with mixing and they are just repeating what others have told them.

What you need to do is approach the idea with an open mind, but with caution and common sense. Crested geckos MAY be able to mix just fine, but the fact they they are physically capable of swallowing a dart frog means that it is probably not worth the risk.

My next project is to experiment with mixing U. Phantasticus and Leucs. They are from very different parts of the world, but their ranges are at the same latitude and require identical environments, neither should be aggressive toward the other and neither would be capable of eating the other. I will post the results on this forum. I am sure to get many posts from people who are absolutely against mixing species. Logic tells me that if they are that opposed to it, they have never tried it themselves, so I will discount any posts that do not include personal experience with it.

The reason most people are interested in this hobby is because they find the animals interesting and want to learn about them. Nothing can be learned without trying something new.]