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  Geckos Unlimited > Gecko Spotlight > Day Geckos | Phelsuma

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2008, 02:36 PM
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Thanks Magnus and Ingo. This is the type of information I was looking for. Maybe you can point me towards articles or web pages of the research that has been done.

With my p guimbeaui it appears the CB maintain good levels of blue and green but the spots are not half as bright orange/red as my wild caught.
I've started adding Naturose (haematococcus algae) to some of my other phelsumas (v-nigra) food to see if it brightens up there reds. I've seen Naturose work well with dart frogs but I'm not sure if there has been success with phelsuma.

Jason
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008, 03:09 AM
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Thanks Ingo,
I did not want to blame you in any way, but I see many times that people are recomending all kinds of vitamin/mineral komplements for their animales.
Most keepers unfortunately do not know how to use that information.
Many of the today available products are definitely not an overall vitamin/mineral
supplement, that should be use on regular basis with every feeding or so.
Instead they are moore or less pure medicine, that should be used with animales that allready have problems. If they have not, they surely will get some !!
I am absolutely sure that vitamin/mineral supplements kill moore animales then they save, because they are used incorrect.
Regrds
Magnus
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008, 04:15 AM
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Yes Magnus and thus your objection hit a very important point.
I should be more precise in such forums. I tend to forget, that these texts stay there for long and that chatting online thus is quite different from personal communication.

Best

Ingo
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:44 PM
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Spot on Magnus!...a 'pinch' of suppliment shaken over the crickets before feeding is actually a dosage many times the equivalent of the RDA for many of the vits in a human..unless you're going to use one pinch for literally thousands of crickets. The other problem is that the suppliments are not designed for Phelsuma specifically..They're often just a regular suppliment for birds/fish/domestic animals which has been tweaked with reptiles in mind. In the absence of specific data, the mixes used for other animals, which have been designed with some scientific basis, are probably a reasonable starting point, but the tweaking, probably with good intentions, tends to distort things. For example, turtles appear to need higher Vit A...so some 'general reptile' suppliments have got vit A that is out of proportion with other vits (notably D and E). Some reptiles 'need lots of extra calcium' so the suppliments have vast amounts of calcium added. Excess calcium prevents the uptake of other minerals (zinc, magnesium etc) as well as causing hormone feedback problems. Potassium excess assists in calcium uptake, so there is one reptile suppliment that contains a ratio of potassium that's about 1000 times what it should be (in a human RDA ratio). Calcium uptake may be better but what about the calcium/sodium ratio? The calcium/phosporous ratio should be somewhere between 1:1 and 2:1 (working on the ratios in other animal groups). Whilst the Ca/P ratio in crickets isn't perfect, the ratio in suppliments is often much too far the other way. The right ratio is the important factor...you're not trying to drown out the phosporous.

I'm not saying that there's no place for suppliments, just that they need to be used sparingly as Magnus says. Its not easy to know which one to use. Perhaps the best approach is to use one brand one week and another brand the following week. I make my own from scratch as it enables me to look at the effects of other additives. The question of how much is safe is a hard question to answer. Obviously a fair bit is likely to be cleaned off the cricket if dusted on. You can guage it a bit better by mixing it with the fruit..but even then, with something like vit A, its not only about the intake but also the uptake..which will depend on the diet of the gecko.

...and back to the original question!...There's not a huge amount of readily available published research on the causes of pigmentation in geckos. Good quality light can help you get the best out of the gecko at that particular time. Balanced supplimentation plays a role. I suspect that carotenoids may be involved in the reds/oranges but simple supplimentation with these has no effect. In a roundabout way, I suspect that diet is the answer, particularly in the case of blue colouration...'course I can't prove any of this yet!!
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:11 AM
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Hi,

I am very much aware of such problems. Thus, for a company, which asked me for a receipt, I designed supplements mixtures convenient to use for the "standard Herper" but still dosed safely and -at least I hope so- intelligently.
For the more experienced guy who still wants convenience, there are several opportiunities to mix (eg, extra calcium, Calcium plus D3, B- Vitamines).

Check out herpetal.de to get an idea

Ingo
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heiser View Post
Hi Jason,

Where/who were you able to get wc males? I know a few peole who would like some.

John

Once upon a time, in a land far, far away (the 2001 Daytona Show) Strictly Reptiles was selling "Captive Bred" guimbeaui, ornata, and cepediana. No sense in going into the details here, but suffice it to say that A TON OF WILD CAUGHT MAURITIAN PHELSUMA were dispersed across the hobby.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danscantle View Post
Once upon a time, in a land far, far away (the 2001 Daytona Show) Strictly Reptiles was selling "Captive Bred" guimbeaui, ornata, and cepediana. No sense in going into the details here, but suffice it to say that A TON OF WILD CAUGHT MAURITIAN PHELSUMA were dispersed across the hobby.
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