Can developing eggs emit hormones causing other eggs not to hatch?

hexentanz · #1 06-17-2011, 04:47 AM

I know with some tadpoles they can emit hormones which suppress other tadpoles development when reared together. I am wondering if this maybe is the same with eggs?

I have been incubating various eggs together in situ at the bottom of a tank behind me. There are 2 clutches of eggs from P. klemmeri, were 2 from P. nigristriata (one hatched) and quite a few Lygo eggs.

Normally my P. klemmeri eggs when they are a double clutch hatch anywhere between 65-69 days. A single egg has taken as long as 73 days. I have a double clutch now that has not hatched yet and has been sitting for 77 days. I estimated they would hatch a day before the one P. nigristriata egg should hatch, in turn the P. nigristriata hatched beforehand, as well as a bunch of Lygo babies.

There has been no drastic drop in temps. All eggs have been incubating 24-26C day and drop 22-23C at night.

But I am left wondering why the P. klemmeri have yet to hatch?

I did candle the eggs and do see the babies inside and they are moving.

All Babies that hatched out in the box were removed fairly quickly from the box with the exception of one being in there overnight, as I did not notice it until 5 minutes till lights out.

This is probably a stupid question, but hey I am running out of ideas.

colinmelsom · #2 06-17-2011, 11:40 AM

Thats an interesting theory.It certainly happens in tadpoles some develop quickly whilst the others fizzle out or get eaten by their peers.
Gecko eggs are hard shelled so would hormones be emitted?I guess they could as if you incubate them too dry the neotenates die,therefore they must take in some moisture through the eggshell.The shells must be porous to some point.
To counteract this you often see photos of hundreds of Phelsuma eggs laid in one place.Obviously this happens over years but females must lay at similar times.
The only way to test this theory out would be to incubate some in identical conditions but in sealed tubswith one tub with more than one clutch and the other with one clutch only.In that case you would need eggs being laid at the same time which is not always easy.
It will be interesting to hear from others on this.

hexentanz · #3 06-17-2011, 03:34 PM

It certainly would be interesting to know if it is true. I too have seen pictures of dozens of eggs out there. But the interesting thing to know would be if they were all one type of gecko or multiple types?

I did a look back at my charts and all the P. klemmeri eggs were previously only incubated in situ separate from other types of eggs.

As I write this one of the eggs started to open two hours ago. The baby is quite lively but has only got a tiny hole opened so far. It is slowly working the hole bigger. I hope it will not be like a previous egg where the baby was so weak. We thought several times the poor little thing died - Phelsuma: Timespan between clutch mates Today it still a little on the runty side, but getting there. On Sunday it will be 7 months old.

daggekko · #4 06-17-2011, 06:56 PM

Fascinating ideas! I can jump on board for this one since I have 3 eggs in 1 box-2 are P pasteuri and 1 is P laticauda. The pasteuri are now a full day past their expected latest hatch date. Hoping for the best still

hexentanz · #5 06-18-2011, 01:39 AM

After many hours passed last night, all that was out of the egg was a little part of the nose. Worried it could not breathe so well, I took the bits of shell off around the nose. Then I panicked that it would be like the other gecko and removed more of the shell. Unlike the other gecko that was a runt this one had yet to absorb the yolk sac or start to shed, now it is barely hanging on. I should have just left it in and let nature run its course. Due to its small size, I am not hopeful the remaining egg will ever hatch. I am kicking myself big time now.

daggekko · #6 06-18-2011, 06:43 AM

Quote:

I should have just left it in and let nature run its course. Due to its small size, I am not hopeful the remaining egg will ever hatch. I am kicking myself big time now

Don't kick yourself too hard. Not every egg hatches in nature and not every baby survives either. Take the lesson and hold your horses a little longer next time

One of my eggs hatched over the night last night!

hexentanz · #7 06-23-2011, 04:32 PM

Well the first one did not survive, but the second baby did make an appearance tonight finally (almost a week later). This one appears to be healthy. It is alert and active.

The eggs are by far the longest times for hatching any Phelsuma for me. I think i will stop placing other types of Phelsuma eggs in with each other, just in case the others really did play a role with these ones hatching so late.