[Rob_H]

Hi All, and merry Christmas eve,

I've got a supposed pair of klemmeri, with one being a definite adult male who's a few years old, and another being an approx. 8 month old supposed female (not quite fully grown yet).

The female is chasing the male around the enclosure, despite being substantially smaller than him. This is my first time with this species, but I was led to believe they were more peaceful than the larger Phelsumas, so I am starting to think either the new female is in fact a male or I've got an incompatible pair.... Any ideas?

Preanal and femoral pores aren't particularly distinct enough for a male at the moment even though she's approximately 3/4 the size of him (no yellowing either), and she'll often start a chase with a characteristic sideways shaking of the head... My thinking is that because she's so much smaller, and the fact that the male lived in the viv beforehand, suggests I've got an incompatible pair. If they were both males I would have thought the dominance would be the other way around! But then again, is pair incompatibility/'angry teenager syndrome' as common an issue with these guys as it is with the larger Phelsumas?

They're just about to be separated, but in the interim I was hoping someone might shed some light on this! I'll try and get some photos of udnerside etc up asap once the camera gets working.

Cheers!
Rob

[colinmelsom]

Its difficult to comment on the sex without photos.Usually male and female klemmeri are compatable.I take it that you have plenty of basking areas and hiding areas?

I have never kept two males together .I would suggest that you have either got two males or the male has been getting a bit frisky with the female and she is now attacking him.You could try cooling them down a bit and reducing the hours of daylight,they might be thinking that its spring rather than winter.

When you find out the sex of the smaller one and assuming it is female you may want to try to find more females and keep them in a 1.2 or 1.3 group.I know that its not easy to find them over here,but they seem to do well in groups.

[hexentanz]

At 8 months it is usually very obvious in P. klemmeri if they are male or female. I'd say separate them for a bit and then try again. Also you should have them separated anyway since at 8 months the female would not be ready to breed with yet.

[PassPort]

Could simply be an immature female who's unwilling to copulate and chasing off an over amorous older male.

Ah, my senior year of high school all over again.....

[colinmelsom]

I think that Maureen is correct about not letting females breed too early.I believe that they should be left to their second year so that they can mature.Let the female lay a few dud eggs first.

[Rob_H]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies, and sorry for my slow one!

This is still quite a mystery... I put the 'female' back in with the male just to check their behaviour, and still a very male like response from her.... Obviously they're separate now. It's not particularly serious, it just involves some rapid side to side head movements from the female before she chases him off.

I've tried to upload a few photos of the underside. It still says female to me, but what does everyone think? She is now only a tiny bit smaller than the male, so should be showing some distinct pores surely if a male?

Cheers,
Rob

[terradas]

Looks female to me.

Most phelsuma males tend to have bright yellow/orange in the pores area between their legs. I know this is true of grandis, standingi and kelmmeri at the very least.

[hexentanz]

Looks female to me and I would still keep them separated until she is one year of age.

[Rob_H]

Thanks guys.... these were my thoughts, but the behaviour was baffling me, as I know of people who keep these in large groups mixed with juveniles so didn't think aggression would be a problem.

Don't worry, I only put them back together to check their behaviour, and the female won't go in permanently until she's clearly sexually mature.

Cheers,
Rob

[wildvet]

Originally Posted by Rob_H

Don't worry, I only put them back together to check their behaviour, and the female won't go in permanently until she's clearly sexually mature.

Cheers,
Rob

Hi Rob.
Put the female (as she really looks like one) with the male only after she has produced her first dudd eggs. Only then is she fully sexually mature. With my female offspring, it takes usually 15-18 months until they start producing them. I'm pretty sure she chased the male away because she wasn't ready yet, like Maureen said.
Restructure the terrarium in which you will keep them together so one gecko won't be an intruder of the territory of the other, since it'll be a new environment for both. How big is that terrarium anyway?

P. klemmeri can be kept in groups and I'm sure you won't have any problems letting the hatchlings grow up with the parents, but you will encounter more severe problems if you introduce semi adults or even an adult female later on.

have fun with the critters

Berit