[daggekko]

Hey, I would like some input on a situation that just happened to a gecko I sold a while back. To start, it was a young female Phelsuma pasteuri.

I went over all aspects of care with the new owner. I shipped the gecko back in September and apparently she started acting shy yesterday afternoon and this morning died.

Tank temperatures were reported to be mid 80's during the day and close to 75F at night.
She was sprayed with warm(not hot) water daily.
Fed on a diet of primarily Repashy Day Gecko Diet, occasionally crickets. Crickets were dusted with Repashy calcium plus.
UV lighting was provided.

I asked about any black spots on the belly that could be from some sort of potential rotting in the belly. No black spots.

I asked about spiders and when the last time crickets were fed- no spiders seen and it had been a couple weeks since crickets had been fed.

The only thing that I can figure is that is was possibly egg bound. Apparently the first time she laid dud eggs she laid 3. I was told she looked "normal, maybe slightly chubby"

The water that was used was from the tap. Are there any keepers in the NJ area? How is the water quality up there?

Does anyone have any other good suggestions? Thanks a bunch in advance.

[thehotchik1000]

Perhaps an overdose of d3? That and egg binding would be the only sudden reasons I could think of. One would rule the other out though.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

[mkschaefer]

How were they determining tank temperatures? I assume they were describing ambient air temperatures. For many temperature measurements, I use an infrared temperature gun and, therefore, know the various temperatures in and surrounding the tank. Did the gecko have a basking site and a range of temperatures?

I probably would have fed invertebrates much more often and then ensured that the invertebrates were fed properly.

This is all just guessing. While it is incredibly disappointing to lose a gecko, it does happen, even to the best of us. I am not excusing poor husbandry (and am not saying this P. pasteuri was kept poorly), but want to address that losses, even serious and disappointing ones, are part of keeping living organisms in a captive setting. We are trying to replicate the lizard's natural habitat and ecology in captivity, which is very difficult. We are also dealing with largely unpredictable (in our understanding) living systems.

I live in Missouri and our temperatures/ humidity are highly variable throughout the year. This affects the environmental conditions in my house and even in my gecko room, no matter how well sealed.

There are often unseen reasons why animals die, even in species we have had success with (as you have with pasteuri). A few weeks ago, I found a juvenile Ctenosaura melanosterna dead in it's enclosure. We are still trying to figure it out. Diet was fine, cage conditions appeared fine, keeping other successfully, can't figure it out. I keep and breed Varanus acanthurus. I have produced a large number of them and found one last year dead in it's enclosure. I could surmise it had broken its neck or back in a crevice or tree hollow. Very sad and confusing, but these are my best guesses.

Keep in mind that many animals die or are consumed in the wild, especially young ones. Some animals that survive in captivity would not survive in the wild for reasons we may not be able to see.

I am not excusing poor husbandry, negligence, or downplaying accidental deaths that could have been prevented by the keeper. While we get disappointed because we have financial resources, emotional ties, interest, etc. in the species we keep (not to mention the rarity of some of our animals), these things happen, hopefully far less often than they do in the wild.

In many genera, people lose females more often than the lose males. We do not know all the nesting preferences of these females or their complete nutritional requirements. Based on your description of the care, I would have provided a small calcium dish, fed more invertebrates (I feed crickets, Drosophila, beetles, roaches, etc. to almost all my geckos), but I realize I am just making these suggestions on the information provided.

I am sorry for you and for the person who had the animal. Losses are terrible but we do encounter them even when our animals are kept the best ways we know how to in captivity. What was her tank setup like?

[daggekko]

Hey, thanks for the replies. I know I won't get a for sure reason why. I just want to see if I could have been missing anything somehow or another.

Calcium-I don't think the gecko needed more. The owner told me she never ate her dud eggs.

Owner bought an infrared temp gun from pro exotics(same one I use). As far as the temperature ranges go, I only have the information that the owner gave, and they were appropriate.

Insects. Yes I agree that there should have been more, but the owner lived in an area where she wasn't able to get them often. I know there are other keepers on this forum that use Repashy the majority of the time. Who knows though, this could a way to find out that it isn't possibly a good complete diet for Phelsuma.

As far as cage decor goes, I know the tank had a piece of verticle oriented bamboo and another 1 or 2 horizontal pieces. There was a piece of wood at the bottom(like driftwood or something you'd find at a reptile store for sale) I'm not sure if the owner got any fake flowers/plants. I use fake flowers in with most of my geckos to provide extra cover and it has worked very well for me.

She did have a basking area at the top with bamboo/lighting and reported that the bottom corner of the enclosure was typically around 74F. With this info I assume the gecko could regulate its body temps just fine.

Perhaps an overdose of d3

Anyone have this happen using Repashy products? I could be confused(it does happen) but I thought the Repashy products had lower levels of the vitamins to help prevent the overdose problem.

The only other thing I can add to this is that she said the gecko was full grown. I know the one I sent her was bigger than the one I am keeping(same age), but that seems way too quick. The one I still have is just over 1/2 grown. She said she was feeding the gecko daily, so that is why I was leaning towards some sort of egg problems.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Matt, btw, the P guimbeaui you sent me continues to get a little less shy and is GORGEOUS!!!

[joshsfrogs]

To answer your question about the vitamin levels in Repashy products, Adam, they vary considerably from product to product (although they are formulated to prevent hypervitaminosis when used properly). Since Vitamin D3 seems to be of biggest concern, here are the minimum Vitamin D levels in some Repashy products:

Day Gecko MRP: 1000 IU/lb
Supercal NoD: 0 IU/lb
Supercal LoD: 10,000 IU/lb
Calcium Plus: 20,000 IU/lb
Supercal MeD: 25,000 IU/lb
Supercal HyD: 50,000 IU/lb

The different calcium supplements are suited to different species, and the supplement you choose also depends on the amount of UV the animal is exposed to. What specific type of UV lighting were you providing your Phelsuma pasteuri?

Dan Szewczyk

[joshsfrogs]

And just to clear up any confusion, "IU" stands for the International Unit, a unit of measurement for different compounds. The mass equivalent of one IU of Vitamin D is 0.025 micrograms. There are specific mass equivalents for different vitamins and compounds.

Dan Szewczyk

[colinmelsom]

Ages ago ( about fifteen years) I bred quite a few P.laticauda.I found it easier to feed dry gecko food (NOT REPASHY) than buy small insects.The geckos grew very quicky but died at a young age through obesity(fatty liver?).

Obviously premade foods have improved greatly over the years but I still wouldn`t feed these exclusively.You see Phelsuma that are fed on these at the shows in Europe (I dont know which brands) and they always look fatter than those fed mostly on livefood.

This is just a personal opinion but I always feed more livefood than the ready mixed "dry" food.

With regard to the D3 I was in correspondance with Allen Repashy on a British forum and he made it clear that you couldn`t overdose with his products.

[joshsfrogs]

Phelsuma do seem to benefit from having a variety of insect prey (gutloaded and lightly dusted when possible) in addition to Day Gecko MRP. This not only helps to provide a varied diet, but it also provides the gecko with a form of enrichment and exercise. Anyone who has kept Phelsuma can attest to the "excitement' that these geckos seem to experience when hunting down prey items.

Dan Szewczyk

[John_Woodward]

I have had two random deaths within my collection in recent years, both quite heartbreaking and to this day i have no good explanation for either. One was a male Ornata and one was a male Guimbeaui. Literally in both cases i checked on the lizards and they were dead stuck to a leaf. Nothing was structurally wrong. They were both healthy, breeding animals. I supplement every few feedings but have never had any problems between these two while producing many animals over the years.... it literally looked like their hearts had just suddenly stopped working while they were going about their daily business.

[daggekko]

Thanks again everyone for all your input. Sorry to hear about that John. That really sucks too.