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  1. #21
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    I think I should chime in one more time why I don't use UV producing bulbs:

    UV producing bulb decay at differently rates depending on manufacturing materials and use. Only by using a reliable, high quality UV meter can one be sure of UV output.

    Since UV production decays over time means that UV producing changes over time, there is no guarantee that a reptile gets a steady needed amount of UV light.

    Proving dietary D3 can be done in a constant steady pace. A gecko's inner workings will choose what it needs and defecate what it doesn't need.

    Over-supplementing is a risk when randomly choosing reptile vitamins that may very well be designed for turtles rather than geckos. I have never had a problem with over-supplementing, toxicity or any dangerous levels.

    High quality sustenance (properly gut loaded insects and real foods) provide the best trace vitamins and minerals for geckos.

    Feeding expired vitamins, calcium, dry food, food substitutes can be a disaster.

    My tactics are to concentrate on high quality foods, proper supplements, high amounts of D3 and calcium. I choose high quality lights that are NOT UV producing.

  2. #22
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    Hey leann I just ordered day geckos in captivity . Does it have info on how to properly supplement the geckos?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLDG View Post
    I think I should chime in one more time why I don't use UV producing bulbs:

    UV producing bulb decay at differently rates depending on manufacturing materials and use. Only by using a reliable, high quality UV meter can one be sure of UV output.

    Since UV production decays over time means that UV producing changes over time, there is no guarantee that a reptile gets a steady needed amount of UV light.

    Proving dietary D3 can be done in a constant steady pace. A gecko's inner workings will choose what it needs and defecate what it doesn't need.

    Over-supplementing is a risk when randomly choosing reptile vitamins that may very well be designed for turtles rather than geckos. I have never had a problem with over-supplementing, toxicity or any dangerous levels.

    High quality sustenance (properly gut loaded insects and real foods) provide the best trace vitamins and minerals for geckos.

    Feeding expired vitamins, calcium, dry food, food substitutes can be a disaster.

    My tactics are to concentrate on high quality foods, proper supplements, high amounts of D3 and calcium. I choose high quality lights that are NOT UV producing.
    Something else to consider is that UV generating lights have shown to cause eye damage in reptiles as well. Many of them don't produce much visible light and thus the pupil does not contract the way it normally would in true sunlight leading to retina damage. In some cases in the rush for bragging rights among bulb manufacturers has actually produced UV bulbs so powerful that at short range they cause skin damage as well.

    UV Lighting for Reptiles: A new problem with high UVB output fluorescent compact lamps and tubes?

  4. #24
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    @ Kennedy: Put your book in the mail just 20 minutes ago.

    Yes, Day Geckos In Captivity does have details on supplements.

    When it was published, Repashy's Vitamins were in their infancy and now they are HUGE. I have found some of Repashy's products useful for my collection but still stick by my "natural foods are best" mantra.

    Investigate and use Repashy's as you feel it fits into your own gecko's needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by c81kennedy View Post
    Hey leann I just ordered day geckos in captivity . Does it have info on how to properly supplement the geckos?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLDG View Post
    That said, I bring up the much controversial topic that begins with I don't use any UV producing bulbs for any of my reptiles....I supplement using larger amounts of dietary D3. Have done this safely, effectively without any adverse conditions on my reptiles for over 15 years.

    In case you missed it and thus worth a second mention....I don't use ANY artificial UV lighting for Phelsuma (which most people know) or for Lygodactulus, or any of my reptiles including turtles and tortoises.

    Pick up your jaw off the floor. Someday keepers will realize that there is a safer, better way to keep reptiles and UV lights are not it. Formula: High quality lighting, quality nutrition, calcium & D3. Day Geckos In Captivity is a little out of date but it clearly outlines how it is done.
    Co-sign on this. Great to see it on a gecko forum. Maybe this will be the default husbandry in 10 years? 20 years?
    [email]Robyn@ShipYourReptiles, TheReptileReport.com

    and THG Heat Inc.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLDG View Post
    @ Kennedy: Put your book in the mail just 20 minutes ago.

    Yes, Day Geckos In Captivity does have details on supplements.

    When it was published, Repashy's Vitamins were in their infancy and now they are HUGE. I have found some of Repashy's products useful for my collection but still stick by my "natural foods are best" mantra.

    Investigate and use Repashy's as you feel it fits into your own gecko's needs.
    I find all this very interesting. Coming from a Chameleon background. UVB is a huge deal.

    With my L.williamsi i have a ReptiGlo 5.0 coiled bulb and a 6700k bulb for the plants in the enclosure. I gutload my feeders very heavy with fresh fruits, leafy greens and veggies, along with some commercial gutloads (Repashy's Bug Burger and Kilgore's DinoFuel). I supplement with Repashy's Cal PLUS Daily, and also spike the fruit babyfood with a Calcium w/D3 once a week.

    Id like to know what you think of my set-up and methods @ Leann
    1.0 F.pardalis (Ambanja), 1:2 F.pardalis (Ambliobe),1:0 C.calyptratus (Veiled), 0.1 C.alba (Umbrella)...........3.2.0 L.williamsi

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonRich View Post
    I find all this very interesting. Coming from a Chameleon background. UVB is a huge deal.

    With my L.williamsi i have a ReptiGlo 5.0 coiled bulb and a 6700k bulb for the plants in the enclosure. I gutload my feeders very heavy with fresh fruits, leafy greens and veggies, along with some commercial gutloads (Repashy's Bug Burger and Kilgore's DinoFuel). I supplement with Repashy's Cal PLUS Daily, and also spike the fruit babyfood with a Calcium w/D3 once a week.

    Id like to know what you think of my set-up and methods @ Leann
    As Allen himself has stated Bug Burger is not a Gutload, it is meant to be used as the sole source of food/water source for crickets, etc. Or if you like to feed other items during the week, there is Hydroload to use in combination with this. Superload is the actual Gutload and should be provided 24hours prior to feeding to your animals.
    Maureen Winter
    --
    wintergeckos.de - Working with various geckos from the genera: Ebenavia, Hemidactylus, Lepidodactylus, Lygodactylus, Paroedura, Phelsuma, Sphaerodactylus & Gonatodes

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hexentanz View Post
    As Allen himself has stated Bug Burger is not a Gutload, it is meant to be used as the sole source of food/water source for crickets, etc. Or if you like to feed other items during the week, there is Hydroload to use in combination with this. Superload is the actual Gutload and should be provided 24hours prior to feeding to your animals.
    Ahh, good thing i make my own wet and dry gutloads.
    1.0 F.pardalis (Ambanja), 1:2 F.pardalis (Ambliobe),1:0 C.calyptratus (Veiled), 0.1 C.alba (Umbrella)...........3.2.0 L.williamsi

  9. #29
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    Oh, yes...those chamelons. I have to agree that with chams, I have not found a way to keep them without using the very best UV providing methods. Chams I believe, in my experience are the most light needy reptiles out there. I kept the small chams without UV lighting successfully but none of the larger ones.

    My concern with commercial cricket food is quality of ingredients. After years and years of trial and error, here is my approach.

    I juice organic fruit and veggies for myself. Crickets, bugs, worm and roaches get the prep leftovers and the pulp. In addition, I do put commercial cricket food as a "floor bottom" as it makes clean up easier in the dozens of insect containers I maintain.

    I carefully look at ingredients of dry insect/cricket food. I don't like to feed my insects just "vitamins and minerals" I want there to be "food" in the ingredients. It's sorta important.

    The best ever home made gut load I've ever seen was put together by an Advance Chameleon group I belong to in the 90's. The closest link I could find to the recipe is here:
    May 2011 gutload - Chameleon Forums

    There is a few commercial gut load products I like out there.....but it's better than people make up their own mind about this stuff.
    Leann
    www.daygecko.com
    http://www.frankietortoisetails.com
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  10. #30
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    I have to agree with Maureen here.

    Over the years I have used Exo Terra and Reptisun Tubes but to my mind the new Arcadia T5 tubes are far by the best U.V.B. tubes that we can get in Europe.Their light output and U.V.B. output are the best that I have seen.In my opinion I get more activity from my Phelsuma ,Lacertids and Chameleons than with any other type or combination of tube.The colours of the animals are very enhanced too.Previously I used Exo Terra tubes and daylight tubes that give out 6500k and this was the only way I felt that I could get anywhere near normal behaviour from the lizards.They are expensive to buy then the geckos and chameleons are themselves.

    I have never used any puc bulbs or compact bulbs as I have banks of vivariums so fluorescent tubes are the best way to light them.

    With regard to supplementation we are in the same scenario as with light fittings.It depends what is available in your country and what manufacturer has the best marketing policy in that country thats why I like to supply my U.V.B. by a light source.

    Maureen may be able to attest to this but I was given some D3 tablets by a German friend of mine ( apparently they are given to pregnant women there) and told to mix in water to a certain ratio.This man had great success with some rare Lacertids with this method but the next time that I met him he said he had started using U.V.B. tubes and the lzards colouration was far brighter.

    Interestingly I went to a conference a few weeks ago and Emanuel Van Heygen was speaking about reptile lighting.Exo Terra are bringing new compact and M.V.B. out later in the year to cater more specifically for reptiles and amphibians.

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