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  1. #11
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    Well I have to ask how do you still consider it a Leo, if it indeed a hybrid with at least 2 or 3 Sub/specie's in it's blood?
    And if it is a proven Hybrid marketing as a True Leo, would be bad stuff if you knew it was Hybrid and other's didn't.

    I would say a lot in the Herp industry has gone too far, but with morph's..I feel once all import's stop coming in, all we are going to have are morph's for certain herp's, some of these morph's will have defect's like the Spider Wobble,ect, and you wont be able to find a Wild Type Blood line, and you kind of loose the true nature of the herp after so much selective breeding is done. I mean you may get a Het that look's like a Wild Type, but that Het is still going to have bad gene's. Can you tell me 3 people that breed Normal ball python's? And I do not breeding a Normal with a pastel and getting half normal's and half pastel's. Like thinking about it, it's hard to find certain herp's that are Breed for Wild Type blood, when there is sooo many morph's for that certain herp, but unless people really care, they just follow the money, or follow it because it's "cool".
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuselBro View Post
    Well I have to ask how do you still consider it a Leo, if it indeed a hybrid with at least 2 or 3 Sub/specie's in it's blood?
    And if it is a proven Hybrid marketing as a True Leo, would be bad stuff if you knew it was Hybrid and other's didn't.

    I would say a lot in the Herp industry has gone too far, but with morph's..I feel once all import's stop coming in, all we are going to have are morph's for certain herp's, some of these morph's will have defect's like the Spider Wobble,ect, and you wont be able to find a Wild Type Blood line, and you kind of loose the true nature of the herp after so much selective breeding is done. I mean you may get a Het that look's like a Wild Type, but that Het is still going to have bad gene's. Can you tell me 3 people that breed Normal ball python's? And I do not breeding a Normal with a pastel and getting half normal's and half pastel's. Like thinking about it, it's hard to find certain herp's that are Breed for Wild Type blood, when there is sooo many morph's for that certain herp, but unless people really care, they just follow the money, or follow it because it's "cool".
    Even though they are hybridized they are still leopard geckos.

    Poor breeding practices along with too much inbreeding is detrimental to any species. Not all breeders produce poor quality animals.

    There needs to be a distinction between the hybrids that are mass marketed today vs geckos that are "pure bloodlines" so to speak.It is easy to rant about it because you think it's immoral and don't agree, or you can promote healthy breeding practices.

    These animals will continue to be capitalized upon until the next big thing, although at current pace I am not sure what that would be.Last several reptile expos I have been too were dominated by leo and ball breeders. Not like the old days where you could find hundreds or different species.

    I am trying to keep a neutral opinion here and view the situation for what it is. The current state of affairs with leopard geckos is exactly the same as dogs. Puppy mills, poorly run breeding facilities and breeds that have congenital defects that have become common with a particular breed.

    The issue is much larger than just "have we gone too far". The answer would be clear that yes the hobby has been taken to an extreme. It takes little effort to say that leos have been exploited or take a stance that the morphs have gone too far. That's just picking the low fruit.

    The harsh reality is there is no turning back. The question is what can you do about it or if you feel so strongly about it, what are you going to do about it ? Pretending that the morphs don't exist and not acknowledging them as leopard geckos or a domesticated species is pure denial.

    It is easy to go online and "rant" because you don't like what you see. I am not playing devils advocate, just calling a spade a spade.

  3. #13
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    But just because it has happened doesn't make it right or ok. You would be hard pressed to find truly pure leopard geckos in the US (meaning non inbred, non hybrid, no morphed genes, het for nothing). Besides myself, I know of only a handful of people that bother to work with them. I don't pretend that morphs didn't happen, I find it sickening that this species has been mucked up so badly that it beyond repair. I do what I can to continue working with true wild type leos, but bloodlines are so limited that this year I'm actually having a group sent over from Europe. "Domestication" has not brought about nearly as many positive thing for leos as it has negative. To make the claim that it is somehow a good thing, to me, is the real denial. I'm not completely against morphs, but I am against the careless mixing of species (and subspecies), the careless inbreeding, and the careless loss of a beautiful species to the hobby. I've been in this hobby 30 years or so now and am saddened by the fact that todays keepers are more interested in who can make the prettiest colors the fastest and make the most money,than they are with working with truly rare or unique animals.
    Ethan
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  4. #14
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    OHHHHHH!!! I completely forgot about the Famous "Kool-Aid" Leo "morph" Which is pretty much a Leo dipped in Red kool-Aid to tint the entire Leo Red, That is just insane!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuselBro View Post
    OHHHHHH!!! I completely forgot about the Famous "Kool-Aid" Leo "morph" Which is pretty much a Leo dipped in Red kool-Aid to tint the entire Leo Red, That is just insane!
    I have seen these for sale in Shanghai. They put them in plastic keychain bags filled with nutrient enriched air that keeps them alive for months !!!

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