[dallasxiao]

I'm setting up my new huge tank today (48"x36"x36"), and since it's just for one gecko, I figured I might as well get another and get a breeding pair going. But first things first, I need help sexing Jeff. Here's the best picture I could get:



I'm pretty sure I'm looking at a female here, but I'm not 100%.

Also, I was thinking of putting some tokays with Jeff and his/her lover eventually, and was wondering if this would be an issue, seeing as to how big my cage is:



She's 5'3", by the way.

If not tokays, then what? I've heard cresteds work well, as well as anoles. Maybe some frogs? I just feel like this huge cage is too much for just 1 or 2 golden geckos.

Thanks in advance!

[Ingo]

100% male

Tokays are dangerous cagemates for goldens. Also your tank is not tall enough for tokays.


Best

Ingo

[dallasxiao]

After reading up, I realized the error of my assumption that Jeff was female.

My cage is 3 feet tall. How tall do tokays need?

Also I've red in several places that goldens/tokays were safe together. Especially in such a big cage.

[Ingo]

Tokays definitely can prey on goldens. Adult tokays do exceed one foot in length and they are clearly arboreal geckos. As a rule of thumb, arboreal geckos should have at least the ability to climb five times their total length -and that still is not much vertical space for a climber.
For tokays, that would mean 5-6 ft tall without couting substrate. I guess, 4 ft still are tolerable but not fine, 3 ft, even less if you use substrate: No way.
Also, I do not think that cage is big for a pair of tokays. If put on one side, IMHO it is close to the minimum recommendable size for a single or a pair.
However, since tokays are extremely hardy, they can survive for decades ecen in shoeboxes and many, way too many people keep them in tiny, partly incredibly tiny enclosures.
But you will never see their full behavioural spectrum in such tanks and also they have a tendency to become aggressive if space is very much restricted.
I do keep tokays since 30+ years and I have done my mistakes as well as I have used all sizes of enclosures. Thus, I can tell you from personal experiences, that space and height do matter a lot.
100g tall is waht I think should be the minimum, 65g tall I do recommend, because otherwise many people do not listen at all. Strangely that is an US phenomenon. In Europe, it is quite well accepted that tokays do need taht space.
If you want to ignore that, put tokays in that tank. They will live long and reproduce in that tank, while showing only part of their natural behaviour and permanently suffer to some extend. They will also very likely not harm the golden for a few months or a year, but finally they will kill him.


Best

Ingo

[dallasxiao]

Ah, you clearly know much better than me

I didn't realize tokays got that big, I don't guess.

And I'd rather Jeff didn't get killed. So now I'm looking for a female golden to put with him. I wouldn't mind having a CB golden or two to raise from babies to be handleable. If that's even possible haha. Jeff used to be, before his horrible experience with the crazy people. Now he mostly wants to be left alone, I think.

[cliff_f]

dallasxiao, Ingo likes to keep his tokays in bigger cages but a tokay will live a perfectly healthy and happy life in the tank you have. People have proven that over and over again but I guess he is just to stubborn to recognize that. He likes to tell everyone how not to do stuff (unless it is his way) rather then helping someone make the most out of what they have. But I would not put a tokay in with the golden.

[CavanC]

Agreed with cliff, those numbers are rather inflated in my opinion, your tank is great but just dont mix goldens and tokays

[PassPort]

I agree 100% with Cliff. I've known tons of people who have kept and bred all of the larger Gekko sp (gecko, smithii, etc...) in 18x18x24 Exo-Terra cages. It seems to be plenty of room for those bruisers.

If you want something to keep with the ulikovskii, maybe try monarchus, or grossmani. They are both of similar size and 'should' be compatible in that size vivarium. How do you plan on planting it?

[Ingo]

I was expecting that. People have proven many times that tokays can live long and breed even under very much inappropriate conditions. Thats the content of what is stated above. Sorry, but I stick to that....
And again: What I recommend is about well accepted standard size where I live and follows official recommendations ( http://www.dght.de/tierschutz/haltungsrichtlinien.htm http://www.amazon.de/Haltungsrichtli.../dp/B001TL61YI full text: http://www.bmelv.de/cln_044/nn_75313...gReptilien.pdf)!
Just think: > 1 ft gecko, known to be very agile at night, arboreal, very long living.
And then think of decades of life never leaving a tank of the sizes mentioned by the last posters.
After all: Do you want to challenge the possible or provide a good life to your pets?


But I know, it is better to stay silent in this forum, when it comes to reasonably sized enclosures.
Anyhow, I have a more important comment: Recommending Gekko monarchus as cagemates can only be done by someone, who never tried that.
Monarchus males are potential killers, at least many of them and all I ever had. Thus, they are not compatible with any mixing. They even attack tokays!
By the way, grossmanni males do fight ulikovskii males and vice versa.

To end with a positive recommendation: Meaningful cagemates for ulikovskii are large millipedes, hermit crabs, smaller toads and also some Polypedates species....to quote a few, which do not interfere with the gecko. I do have positive experiences with such setups. In all cases, the tank of course has to be adapted to fit the special needs of all inhabitants.


Best

Ingo

[PassPort]

Ulikovskii and grossmani males can both be kept together in large vivaria that is well planted without any problems whatsoever. Hell, in my experience females are more brutal to each other than the males are.

Also, not all male monarchus are as bad as you've seen. For the most part they are shy lizards.