Problems with Zoomed Mopani Wood

sarahjane85 · #1 06-23-2008, 10:25 PM

Recently I had one of my year old cb A. felinus develop neurological problems to the point where I thought he was going to die (head hanging to one side, no muscle control/coordination, flipping over, etc..).

I had changed nothing except for the new piece of mopani wood, previously autoclaved, added just a week before. I removed the mopani just to be safe and put a large piece of cork bark in its place. After 6 days he has returned to normal.

I had another viv containing a piece of mopani wood and have since removed it as I now know this is the problem (another yr. old cb has developed the same symptoms). All other geckos in vivs w/o the mopani are healthy and show typical behaviours.

Researching, I've read about the copious amounts of tannins released in aquaria to the point of turning the water brown!!

Has anyone else had any problems arise after using this wood?

Thanks,
Sarah.

Sitting_duck · #2 10-26-2008, 10:29 AM

OMG yes I have. I had mopani wood partly submerged in water. The part submerged in water started to break, and this red "skin" started to form all over it. If you rub it it'll come off, it didn't look to healthy though, so I'm going to move it to my leopard geckos cage that way it won't have any contact with water.

Knobtailman · #3 10-28-2008, 11:21 AM

Hey guys, thanks for the heads up. I had no idea that mopani would do that. Thanks again!

lampeye · #4 11-24-2008, 10:52 AM

I just wanted to ring in on this.

I've used mopani in MANY of my aquariums, for over a decade. Yes, it does release tannins, but so will ANY wood or plant-based material. Tannic and humic acids are the natural result of plant decay, although some materials leach more than others. Beech twigs/leaves are a good example of something that leaches a large amount of tannins, and are actively sought out by aquarists for this reason.

The "Skin" on the mopani is bacterial/fungal growth and typical of new pieces. The stuff is very dense, so it sinks right away, but it also holds a good amount of organics that bacteria and fungi can use rapidly. The first few weeks of a new piece of mopani will be a bit funky, but I've NEVER had any problems with fish because of the wood.

As far as herps, any arboreal species of humid, tropical forests would be in BIG trouble if it were intolerant of tannins.

And water that collected in the crotch of a tree, or any long period of light rain, enough to keep the bark wet, but not "wash" the tree trunk, would accumulate a significant amount of these natural acids. So we can probably rule out tannins as a suspect.

That's not to say that mopani wood couldn't contain something ELSE toxic to your gex, but I find it unlikely, simply because of the number and variety fish I've exposed to it over the years. This sounds, really, like a case of coincidence.

RFB2 · #5 11-24-2008, 08:09 PM

I have used it quite a bit also with no issues.

**Elizabeth Freer** · #6 12-27-2008, 09:15 PM

Hi Sarah ~

I realize that your Mopani wood post is dated June 2008. The set of circumstances you describe happening to two of your year-old CB A. felinus seems like it could be more than coincidence. Perhaps for some reason A. felinus is more sensitive to this wood.

Did the second gecko recover as well?

You know that humans can have allergies as kids, grow out of them as adults, yet acquire more allergies as we mature.

Just wondering whether you contacted ZooMed to share this story?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarahjane85

Recently I had one of my year old cb A. felinus develop neurological problems to the point where I thought he was going to die (head hanging to one side, no muscle control/coordination, flipping over, etc..).

I had changed nothing except for the new piece of mopani wood, previously autoclaved, added just a week before. I removed the mopani just to be safe and put a large piece of cork bark in its place. After 6 days he has returned to normal.

I had another viv containing a piece of mopani wood and have since removed it as I now know this is the problem (another yr. old cb has developed the same symptoms). All other geckos in vivs w/o the mopani are healthy and show typical behaviours.

Researching, I've read about the copious amounts of tannins released in aquaria to the point of turning the water brown!!

Has anyone else had any problems arise after using this wood?

Thanks,
Sarah.

sarahjane85 · #7 01-19-2009, 06:16 PM

Hey Elizabeth..

I did not contact ZooMed since both felinus recovered and are doing great. If, however, they had died, I would have sent in both for a necropsy.

The felinus could be more sensitive. Tannins bind to proteins, which further break down to alter gastro and urinary (spec. kidneys) systems in animals. I've read several papers concerning these same neurological effects in Iguanas.

As far as fish and their aquatic env. = totally different biological systems. In the wild, animals will show typical avoidance behavior. In an enclosure, they are subject to whatever the keeper puts in.

Sarah.

**Riverside Reptiles** · #8 01-21-2009, 02:31 PM

Cat Geckos are very sensitive animals. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if A. Felinus were more sensitive than other geckos to tannins.

Dendro_Dave · #9 01-21-2009, 03:42 PM

I find it unlikely the tannins had anything to do with it. I have exposed many amphibians, fish, and herps (various geckos included) to environments with tons of tannins. I build tropical vivaria with very wet drift wood and water features...no issues in over 5 years.

(water is cloudy cuz i was just fiddlin with it before pic, its brown cuz of tannins)

But in a naturalistic setting like this a balance is established as the tank cycles...basicallly like an aquarium. Set it up, and let it go before you put stuff in it so the environment can stablize....in an non natural enclosure you dont have nearly the interplay between various organic componets and organisms.

And when you throw something natural, especially if it gets wet into a tank full of tuppaware and legos or something it can easily get bacterial/fungi/mold growth and depending on the type that could easily cause those symptoms. In a natural viv this happens at first but then the mirco fauna find a balance and in a healthy system the majority of mold, fungi and bacteria is all kept in check.

And animals except those with respitory sensitivities can even be maintained with little or no ventilation in these setups.... Franky given the abundance of tropical geckos kept, i cant believe that more gecko keepers aren't doing natural vivaria....They should really take a look at what even novice and intermediate dart frog keepers are putting together now adays. Add a strip of mesh and uv light and you are good to go...and/or a lil D3 supplementation.

sarahjane85 · #10 01-22-2009, 01:08 AM

All of my geckos are in natural vivs (including plant species from their particular region)..... no legos here.

Are you talking specifically about Mopani wood? Do you have A. felinus in vivs with Mopani?

This was a specific question but you can elaborate on what type of wood you use....with which species of GECKO....and how long you have had these set up with inhabitants........

Sarah.