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  1. #1
    ybecauseican is offline Newbie
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    Default Uroplatus Species number?


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    I have been out of the "hobby" for several years now (college), and am now looking into getting back into it. When I was active in the herp community, there were only a few species of Uroplatus being kept in captivity. Those species being Henkeli, Fimbriatus, Phantasticus, Ebanaui, and Lineatus. Getting back into the hobby now I am seeing that several of the species have gone through taxonomic revisions and now there are what appears to be several subspecies of the above geckoes, as well as a few new species such as Pietschmanni, Allaudi, Malahelo and so on. I have searched and searched for a specific number and listing of all the species and subspecies that are listed today, but haven't found any definitive answers. If some of you gecko experts could please help me finish this list of animals, I would be very appreciative.

    Current list of known Uroplatus species. Please fill in the blanks.

    U. Fimbriatus (new giant white eyed morph a subspecies or simply a locality?)
    U. Henkeli
    U. Sikorae
    U. Sikorae sameitii
    U. Lineatus
    U. Allaudi
    U. Malahelo
    U. Pietschmanni
    U. Phantasticus (these animals are so variable, there must be more than one species/subspecies, new giant morph?)
    U. Ebanaui (same as above, very variable, several subspecies?)

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Ace
    Ace is offline Newbie
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    as far as i know this is where the species currently stand.

    1.Uroplatus alluaudi* (Mocquard, 1894 )
    2.Uroplatus ebenaui (Boettger, 1878 )
    3.Uroplatus fimbriatus (Schneider, 1792 )
    4.Uroplatus guentheri* (Mocquard, 1908 )
    5.Uroplatus henkeli* (Böhme & Ibisch, 1990 )
    6.Uroplatus lineatus (Duméril & Bibron, 1836 )
    7.Uroplatus malahelo* (Nussbaum & Rexworthy, 1994 )
    8.Uroplatus malama* (Nussbaum & Rexworthy, 1995 )
    9.*Uroplatus phantasticus* (Boulenger, 1888 )
    10.Uroplatus sikorae sikorae* (Boettger, 1913 )
    11.*Uroplatus sikorae sameiti* (Böhme & Ibisch, 1990, 1888 )
    12.Uroplatus pietschmanni (Böhle & Schönecker 2005 )
    13.*Uroplatus giganteus * (Glaw, Kosuch, Henkel, Sound & Böhme2006 )

    Its worth noting that Pearson 2007 suggests evidence for full species status to be granted to U.sikorae sameti.


    If any of that is incorrect i would appreciate it if someone could corect it for me.

    Cheers, will
    Last edited by Ace; 01-18-2008 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Pearson info
    E.macularius 3.13
    R.cilliatus 10.14.32
    R.chahoua 2.1.3
    R.auriculatus 1.2.1
    R.sarasinorum 1.1
    R.l.leachianus 1.2
    G.luii 1.1
    G.lichtenfelderii 1.2.1
    O.monolis 1.1.4
    A.persica 1.5.2
    L.lugubris 0.48
    U.henkeli 2.3
    U.phantasticus 1.1.2
    E.agricole 1.1.1
    D.tessalatus 1.1
    N.l.levis 2.1
    N.milli 2.3.2

  3. #3
    Gecko_Danny's Avatar
    Gecko_Danny is offline Junior member
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    There are allso some long tail ebenaui and phantasticus.
    And i've heard of some Diego sikorae and henkeli i think.

    I allso think that there are more diffrent species of fimbriatus

  4. #4
    Ace
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    A bit more on uroplatus species:

    Distinct monophyletic clades (summarised from bauer 2007)

    1. Large bodied forms (U.fimbriatus, U.henkeli, U.sikorae ssp, U.giganteus)
    2. Small bodied forms (U.ebunaui, U.phantasticus)* probably also U.malama
    3. U.alluaudi + U. pietschmanni, also form a distinct clade
    4. U.lineatus, forms a weakly associated sister group to the large bodies forms
    5. U.guentheri forms a weakly associated sister group to all other clade’s

    Exactly where U.malahelo lies is unclear as it is only known from a few specimens so was not available for DNA sequencing.

    Some of the results shown i Bauers DNA analysis were surprising as i would have thought from a taxanomic viewpoint that pietschmanni would be closer related to sikorae and that guentheri and alluaudi along with possibly malahelo would form another distinct clade.

    And some other possible species;

    1.U.henkeli diego, the so called “Diego” henkeli found in the Antsiranana province to the north of Madagascar (formerly called Diego Saurez). Currently being considered for full species status. There is also a greater degree of divergence between Behrama/Nosy Be individuals (true U.henkeli ?) and Montagne des francais/ Ankarana individuals than there is between U.fimbriatus and U.giganteus (bauer 2007)
    2.U.cf.giganteus “giant giganteus” from Marojejy (possibly another new species although species ranges overlap with those of giganteus and fimbriatus) Bauer 2007
    3.U.cf.ebunaui “long tailed ebunaui” from Montange d’Ambre , again currently being being considered for full species status pending further research.(Shown in Glaw &Vences 1994, and also Bohme and Henkel 1995)
    4. U.cf.ebunaui from the Tsarantanana region probably another as yet undescribed species. Shows a closer DNA relationship with U.phantasticus than U.ebenaui (Bauer 2007)
    5. U.cf.phantasticus “giant phantasticus” further work necessary to discover exact status, grows to twice the recognised species size for U.phantasticus hinting at yet another species altogether, colour and pattern differences also.
    6. U.henkeli complex:giant mainland form (near 300mm total length)
    7. U.cf.fimbriuatus Dwarf fimbriatus from unknown locality (total length 170mm as adults) Van Duin
    8. U.cf.fimbriatus (Montagne d'Ambre) lack characteristic iris patterns of fimbriatus. Van Duin

    Almost every single scientific paper written on uroplatus speciation or phylogenetics ends with the same conclusion that further work is needed to accurately define the different species.

    There is also the very probable scenario of descovering completely new species with body plans unrelated to any of the currently recognised species.

    here is a photo i found on the web (cant remember where if i figure it out ill post credit, otherwise thanks to the original photographer). now i dont know what other people may think but i have no idea what to classify this as, it was simply labelled as unidentified uroplatus spp.



    looks like some kind of sikorae spp to me but there are so many divergent characteristics i really have no idea what this is.

    Cheers, will
    E.macularius 3.13
    R.cilliatus 10.14.32
    R.chahoua 2.1.3
    R.auriculatus 1.2.1
    R.sarasinorum 1.1
    R.l.leachianus 1.2
    G.luii 1.1
    G.lichtenfelderii 1.2.1
    O.monolis 1.1.4
    A.persica 1.5.2
    L.lugubris 0.48
    U.henkeli 2.3
    U.phantasticus 1.1.2
    E.agricole 1.1.1
    D.tessalatus 1.1
    N.l.levis 2.1
    N.milli 2.3.2

  5. #5
    GaryCrain is offline Newbie
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    Here is what Olaf Pronk has told me about ebenaui.....

    "The large, large tailed "U.ebenaui" that is sometimes sold as U.malama by certain in the trade
    is another species. It originates from Mt d'Ambre and the Galoko mountains in NW Madagascar. I personally
    suspect that "normal" U.ebenaui that are available in the trade from the Moramanga region will prove to be yet
    another undescribed species, "U.ebenaui" from the Tsingy de Bemaraha again another undescribed species
    and that true U.ebenaui are only found on the islands of Nosy Be and Nosy Faly. I don't think Nosy Be and Nosy Faly
    U.ebenaui have ever been in the trade"

    Im sure he wont mind.......

  6. #6
    ybecauseican is offline Newbie
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    Thanks folks for the great answers. Ace, thats practically a thesis on Uroplatus taxonomy. It would have taken me months to find all those references. With all of the different ecosystems and forest types in Madagascar spread out over suck a large area, it would make sense that the species would be so diverse. The DPM (Disruptive Pattern Material) type of coloration these animals have is confusing to the eye (at least mine!) and makes it extremely difficult to distiguish animals of often same size and shape, from each other as two completely different species. When I was at the White Plains NY show several years ago (think 1999), I remember going around with a buddy of mine and he commented that the "phatasticus" being sold at one booth were in fact Ebenaui, just with larger tails. I asked him how he could tell the difference between the two, and he pointed out small, minute details that I would have overlooked and simply taken for simple genetic variation within a species. I wonder how many people out there have true Ebenaui, and how many have different, yet undescribed species of the Ebenaui/Phantasticus complex. Maybe this is one reason as to why some people can't seem to get their "pairs" to breed. They have similiar but incorrectly identified animals together, thinking that they are incompatible, but really just different species. This worries me as I am concerned with hybridization (sp?) and only hurts the animals and keepers who are interested in keeping the animals for conservation purposes. Importers should be made aware of these revisions and should try to find out exact locality and species. Anyone out there with weird or odd looking animals should post pictures of their animals, that way we might be able to ID them. The sooner we can come up with some sort of a basic frame work (Phants of this color tend to come from here, Sikorae's from this area prefer warmer temps...etc,etc) the sooner we can be on our way to better husbandry.
    The hobby has come along way though, as when I stopped keeping (but not caring) Uroplatus that their were around 10 species ID'ed. Now there are 13 definitve species/subspecies, and what looks like several more on the way. Thanks again all.

  7. #7
    GaryCrain is offline Newbie
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    Thanks for getting back into it!

    One point is maybe Phants and ebenaui cross breed in nature and that is where alot of the "other ones" come from.

    Regardless its fun!

  8. #8
    Ace
    Ace is offline Newbie
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    Although it may be a possibility that Phants and ebenaui interbreed in the wild i would seriously doubt that this is the case. due to the incompatability issues when breeding apparently the same species e.g phantasticus it would suggest that a greater degree of hybridization such as between phantasticus and ebenaui just wouldnt be possible. it is far more likely that the reasoning behind the great divergence in individual populations is due to the fragmented nature of thier distribution leading to "isolated" genepools causing different traits with regards to structure or colouration becoming domminant in different populations.

    Roughly 70 percent of the primary forest was destroyed in the 30 years between 1895 and 1925. (Hornac, 1943).
    The original extent of the eastern rain forests at colonization was 11.2 million ha of which 7.6 million ha remained in 1950. By 1985 the eastern rainforests of Madagascar, as determined from Landsat images covered only 3.8 million ha. Thus, in 1985, only 505 of the rainforests that existed in 1950 still remained, 34% of that which originally existed. This yields an average rate of clearance of 111,000 ha (1.5%) per year between 1950 and 1985 (Science, 1990).

    As you can see the rate of habitat destruction doesnt only pose an issue due to generalised habitat loss but also though the destruction of forest "corridors" stoping any form of gene flow between populations. Bauer 2007 stated that only U.henkeli has been able to show enough adaptability to survive in low population densities in secondary habitat. therefore a loss of connecting forest isolates populations leading to the beginnings of specieation.

    Cheers, will
    E.macularius 3.13
    R.cilliatus 10.14.32
    R.chahoua 2.1.3
    R.auriculatus 1.2.1
    R.sarasinorum 1.1
    R.l.leachianus 1.2
    G.luii 1.1
    G.lichtenfelderii 1.2.1
    O.monolis 1.1.4
    A.persica 1.5.2
    L.lugubris 0.48
    U.henkeli 2.3
    U.phantasticus 1.1.2
    E.agricole 1.1.1
    D.tessalatus 1.1
    N.l.levis 2.1
    N.milli 2.3.2

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