Substrate - Page 2

MonteQ's · #11 06-20-2008, 02:49 AM

I finaly had a chance to track that post down. I hope it's okay to link to another forum. If not, feel free to remove.

Warning!! This shows a necropsy, and contains graphic images.
For those of you who use bark substrate ( necropsy photos) - Gecko Resource Forums

My guess is there was a loose layer of the bark chips in this ones' tank. If you press them in it actually forms a pretty tough layer.

'stoph · #12 06-20-2008, 04:48 AM

Quote:

I finaly had a chance to track that post down. I hope it's okay to link to another forum. If not, feel free to remove.

Warning!! This shows a necropsy, and contains graphic images.
For those of you who use bark substrate ( necropsy photos) - Gecko Resource Forums

They are talking about orchid bark in that thread, it's small bark chips mixed with humus and coco fiber- great soil for epifyt plants.
The pieces i use are a lot bigger.

On the left the orchid bark and on the right the stuff i use. (I rule them that they are same size or bigger compared to the animals head)
I think repti bark is somewhere between the 2
bark.JPG

Quote:

My guess is there was a loose layer of the bark chips in this ones' tank. If you press them in it actually forms a pretty tough layer.

The fact you can compress it is one of the sources of the problem it will also compress in their gut and form blocks.
Compared to that it would be better to have small hard pieces that can pass without getting compacted.
Best in my eyes is still larger pieces they can't ingest at all.
If you look at the pic of the necropsy you see the ball of small compressed substrate.
He didn't eat that in one evening but once a small non-digestible ball is formed it keeps on growing.

**Graham_s** · #13 06-20-2008, 06:39 AM

Thanks again to everyone who has replied.

@ MonteQ - I have tried something similar to the astro turf thing you suggested. I tried Coco liner (what is used to line hanging baskets) but it is sold on a roll by the metre and is 100% natural. The only issue I had with this is over time it seems to degrade as well in high humidity viariums, and I have seen geckos lick as they wander around and catch a stray piece of coconut coir in their mouth and instead of push it out of their mouths they try to eat the lot, which would cut them to pieces inside if ingested fully. However, this doesn't seem to be a problem if the gecko is larger.

Edit: looking at that link is making me even more nervous about using anything other than paper towel.

MonteQ's · #14 06-20-2008, 03:30 PM

Stoph - I never thought of compacting it making things worse, I figured it would make it harder to ingest to begin with. Thanks for the thought. I'll be redoing tanks at the end of the summer, I might try switching things around. The bark I use is too large for the phants to ingest, definitely agree with you on that point.

Graham - Loose substrate in general makes me nervous. If you look hard enough, You'll probably be able to find someone who's had issues with anything. Hopefully you'll find some solution that'll keep you and the geckos happy.

btw- The coco liner was a good idea! Probably looked a whole lot better than astro-turf ever could! Lol

**Graham_s** · #15 06-21-2008, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonteQ's

Stoph - I never thought of compacting it making things worse, I figured it would make it harder to ingest to begin with. Thanks for the thought. I'll be redoing tanks at the end of the summer, I might try switching things around. The bark I use is too large for the phants to ingest, definitely agree with you on that point.

Graham - Loose substrate in general makes me nervous. If you look hard enough, You'll probably be able to find someone who's had issues with anything. Hopefully you'll find some solution that'll keep you and the geckos happy.

btw- The coco liner was a good idea! Probably looked a whole lot better than astro-turf ever could! Lol

I don't think I will ever be totally happy with loose substrate.
I suppose another option would be to provide the live food in a dish, but then the gecko won't get the exercise.

The coco liner seemed to work well for the guentheri but not the cf ebenaui, so I may have to see what else I can find.

I know its not substrate, but I did see my male guentheri dive for a cricket last night and got a dead ficus leaf in his mouth as well, but he spat that out and ate the cricket, so maybe they are more clever than I give them credit for.

scintillatingstar · #16 06-22-2008, 06:03 PM

You are keeping substrate below the paper towel, yes? I have purely paper towel down right now, multiple layers to make it soft when the geckos dive on it. This simply does not work, as it does not hold humidity nearly as long as it needs to!

**Graham_s** · #17 06-22-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scintillatingstar

You are keeping substrate below the paper towel, yes? I have purely paper towel down right now, multiple layers to make it soft when the geckos dive on it. This simply does not work, as it does not hold humidity nearly as long as it needs to!

Yes, I have the substrate, then the paper towel, so that they can't eat the substrate but the humidity is still high. Give it a go

jabberwock486 · #18 06-22-2008, 06:55 PM

one thing i have started doing is using leaves to cover the soil. it provides a more inviting ground cover for the geckos to hunt. also it does prevent the from getting mouthful of dirt, its easy to spit out a leaf. although dirt doesn't seem to be a problem, they can spit it out. a small amount of coco fiber will not hurt. after all these animals must deal with this in the wild.

i get the leaves from my yard, but i process them first. they get baked in the oven at 315 F for around 15 minutes. this dries and kills almost everything. then they get bagged and placed in the freezer until needed. maple and oak leaves are used for the most part. large cottonwood leaves are great too.

i did this first in a small chameleon cage. then decided it was a good idea for the geckos. they love it.

scintillatingstar · #19 06-22-2008, 11:53 PM

The process...Thinking about putting paper towel on top

First i put down tropical (bed-a-beast more or less) bedding, and compacted it real good by pushing it down. (dark brown stuff)

Then i poured coconut bark on top of that:

I pushed that down INTO the tropical bedding. It didnt turn out like i thought it would, but its ok. This is as flat and compact as i could get it:

This is the view from the top. The viv isnt finished, this is just to show the bottom of the cage and its substrate.

**Graham_s** · #20 06-23-2008, 07:09 AM

not sure about the coco bark as I think that could be easily ingested. What sort of diameter are the coco bark pieces? If this is for sikorae I think I might take out the coco chips and put loads of cork bark in on the floor (so less substrate is exposed (and looks more natural)) and as arboreal pieces as well. Obviously you could try paper towel on top as well and see how it works for you.