Phant question

Jeff R · #1 06-22-2011, 08:36 PM

Hi all,
Never posted before, I'm more of a dart guy than geckos. That's actually why I'm posting. I have two pairs of phantasticus that I don't know what to do with, they don't fit in a room full of frogs.
The geckos are eating and drinking water off the walls. Three of them however, have tails that are curled UP along the edges. This happened about two months ago and has not yet righted itself. Again they are eating and drinking. They're skin is taut and there are no abrasions. They are active at night and assume their "positions" during the day.
Eventually I want to sell them to make room for some planned frog additions but don't want to sell them before I'm sure this tail thing is ok.
Any suggestions. I will post picks later.
Thanks,
Jeff

Western Gecko · #2 06-23-2011, 02:23 PM

Typically, a curled tail is an indication of dehydration or a damaged tail. You mention the geckos are active, eating and drinking so it may be a related health issue. Have you been supplementing with the required vitamins and calcium?

NigelMoses · #3 06-23-2011, 03:28 PM

Some phantasticus just have curled tails on the edges. I have seen this mainly with wild caught animals. Also if the tail is more on the plump side it will start to get wavy and curl a bit. If the geckos are eating and drinking normally I wouldn't be too concerned. Any shedding issues? Also pics will be the best way to see what is going on.

Jeff R · #4 06-23-2011, 03:51 PM

I think the issue definitely started with dehydration as it occurred over night. It had been a warmer day and the one day I didn't mist. After that I did all the recommended things. Pedialyte, warm shower, and higher humidity.
I supplement with reptocal, hertivite and repashy.
I'll get pictures up tonight.

I appreciate the help.

NigelMoses · #5 06-23-2011, 08:29 PM

You mentioned that the curling occurred over two months ago. I wouldn't be overly concerned if they seem otherwise fine. Are the animals WC? Dehydration definitely will cause the tail to curl in, it will begin to roll in on both sides like a fruit roll up. Once again though, pictures will tell.

Jeff R · #6 06-24-2011, 12:13 AM

Pictures 1-2 is a male
Pic 3-4 is a male
pic 5-6 is a female
Pic 7-8 is a female

jadrig · #7 06-24-2011, 01:20 AM

Yeah, they are all perfectly healthy. When it comes to established phantasticus...tail curling has more to do with weight loss than dehydration. Established WCs will shed if they get too dry, but if they are eating, their tail s usually will not curl due to dehydration. Their tails will shrink at first, then start to curl under when they are not receiving enough nutrition. The reason why fresh imports usually have such curled tails probably has more to do with the fact that they are deprived of food for weeks at a time during the import/export process. They get most of their water from their prey items anyway.
Have the two females' tails always been that size, or have they shrunk in width?
If they are WC, I think it might just be a physiological variation/mutation...but most likely the reptilian equivilent of cellulite. excessive fat causing the tail to curve upwards...My one 6+ year old WC male's tail became thick, almost swollen, and wavy like a henkels tail. This was right before breeding season...he became so aggressive that I had to separate him.

miguel camacho! · #8 06-24-2011, 09:53 AM

Sorry Joe...I disagree. I would not say that the animals are perfectly healthy. One sign that they are perfectly healthy would be that they don't seem to concurrently show the same symptoms of tail curling, even though the pictured tail curling is not the norm for a dehydrated animal.

It's true, tail curling is probably a combination of lack of food and water, but I would be careful in saying that they get most of their water from their food, Joe. True, in one setting there might be more water weight in the prey the animal feeds upon, but you make it sound as though you really don't need to keep the cage misted, which would be a fatal mistake. Keep the animals misted.

It's not a mutation. Mutation happens at random and wouldn't happen simultaneously in several geckos. It's not "reptilian cellulite" and looks nothing like the wrinkling that sometimes takes place with well-fed individuals.

The females appear to be worse than the males. The males, from what I can tell, look normal. How long have you had them all? What conditions are you keeping them in? Has the issue been a one-time issue that never progressed since the onset, or has it been getting worse over time? More detail about your husbandry would help people determine if there is something you should change in their care to alleviate the issue, but even then you might not be doing anything wrong.

I don't know if this is what you're seeing here, but I had one WC female start to develop an issue where the edges of her tail started to seem to be eaten away, very slowly. Her condition started as you described but it did not take her 2 months to succumb. The entire time she acted completely healthy. If I had to guess, I would say it was possibly a bacterial or nematode problem, but I have no way to know for sure. It was the only time I ever saw that happen.

Attached are pics of her before she died.

jadrig · #9 06-24-2011, 11:48 AM

These two females look healthy, physically, other than their tails...they have good body weight, although not overly plump, and their backbone/pelvic girdle looks healthy. Their tails do look 'different', but I am curious to see if their tails looked 'normal' prior to this.

Mike, your female looked like she was gravid, robust body with eggs pushing ribs outwards, even though she had good weight on her bones. After she died, did you open her up?

Jeff R · #10 06-24-2011, 04:11 PM

Husbandry details:
30 gallon enclosure with partial screen lid. Humidity is managed with adjustable glass covers over the screen. There are two geckos per enclosure, 2 males in one and two females in another.
Substrate is peat, sphag, charcoal, mix.
Furniture is twigs, leaf litter, pothos
Misting once a day
The room is temperature regulated by an in-line centrifugal fan that pulls air from under the house (cooler air) and out of the room. Room temps range from 65 at night to upper 70's during the day (twice this year the room got to 79 but the geckos are in the lower level of the room and are not lighted. I was using UVB but after the tail issue started I removed it to keep temps down.
I feed crickets twice a week dusted with repashy calcium +, hertivite, and reptical.
The tail issue started over night about 3 months ago. I showered them with tepid water and gave them pedialyte once. The females are definitely worse than the males. The dark male actually looks better now from when it first started.
All geckos are active hunters and all other behavior is normal. I got them as fresh imports about six months ago.