[Gexkko]

(I apologize for the length of the post. I have a lot of questions and am hoping some of you can take the time to help answer them).

I'm new to these boards, but from what I've read so far, I can see you are all a helpful and knowledgeable bunch. Quick background: I've been caring for various species of reptile and amphibian for the last 15 years or so, with a small break during college. I'm finally in a place financially where I can afford set up and care for more demanding species, and U. Sikorae caught my attention. I've got a reptile expo in my area (Seattle, Wa) in mid-October, so I'm going to be working to get a proper vivarium set up in case any of the breeders/dealers have U. Sikorae available. If not, I'll go through other breeders to get the little guys.

I've been scouring the internet for information about Uroplatus care and specifically Sikorae care. As I'm sure you are all aware, the information is spotty and generalized. The best I've been able to find are anecdotal accounts from various forum posts about specific topics (I looked through the posts on these boards going back about a year and a half). I hate picking up any animal without properly researching it's care requirements, especially species as delicate and demanding as the Uroplatus genus. I'm hoping some of you experienced folks can take the time and shed some insight on the questions I have.

Cage requirements

There seems to be a disagreement on what the cage requirements for U. Sikorae are. I know size is of critical importance, but I can't find "hard" numbers with any real justification. I want to be above minimum sizes, but space and cost does become a concern as tanks get larger. would a 40g (turned on it's size) be sufficiently large for a trio of U. Sikorae? If not, would a 50g? 60g? I want to know where the minimum really falls (based on your experiences) so I can shoot to exceed it without going overboard and using all my available space.

Vivarium structure isn't discussed anywhere that I can find. I reviewed vivarium pictures various members of this board posted and saw some common but conflicting themes. Some members have all glass/acrylic vivariums while others use screen mesh similar to that used for chameleons and iguanas. Since humidity is of such importance (80%-100% if I'm not mistaken), how can a mesh enclosure be adequate?

Planting

I've seen a lot of planted vivariums, but never any real justification for the plants used. Are these plants simply to add some humidity and environmental appeal, or are they meant to be used as climbing platforms for the geckos? Some of the pictures I've seen show plants which appear too flimsy to hold an active adult Sikorae, but I could be wrong.

Temperature

There is disagreement on temperature requirements for U. Sikorae. Some resources I've read say daytime temperatures between 78-84F, others say 74-78F, other say 72-26F, all with variable night time drops going down as low as 62F. The reptiles I have experience with don't tolerate such huge ranges well, especially on the hottest and coldest ends. In your experiences as keepers and breeders, what temperatures do these guys seem to thrive best in?

I'm sure I'll come up with more questions, but those are the ones I find most pressing and unanswered from all my research thus far. Thanks again for your help!

[Fumbles]

Wrote between your lines in red

Originally Posted by Gexkko

(I apologize for the length of the post. I have a lot of questions and am hoping some of you can take the time to help answer them).

I'm new to these boards,

Welcome

but from what I've read so far, I can see you are all a helpful and knowledgeable bunch. Quick background: I've been caring for various species of reptile and amphibian for the last 15 years or so, with a small break during college. I'm finally in a place financially where I can afford set up and care for more demanding species, and U. Sikorae caught my attention. I've got a reptile expo in my area (Seattle, Wa) in mid-October, so I'm going to be working to get a proper vivarium set up in case any of the breeders/dealers have U. Sikorae available. If not, I'll go through other breeders to get the little guys.

I've been scouring the internet for information about Uroplatus care and specifically Sikorae care. As I'm sure you are all aware, the information is spotty and generalized. The best I've been able to find are anecdotal accounts from various forum posts about specific topics (I looked through the posts on these boards going back about a year and a half). I hate picking up any animal without properly researching it's care requirements, especially species as delicate and demanding as the Uroplatus genus. I'm hoping some of you experienced folks can take the time and shed some insight on the questions I have.

Cage requirements

There seems to be a disagreement on what the cage requirements for U. Sikorae are. I know size is of critical importance, but I can't find "hard" numbers with any real justification. I want to be above minimum sizes, but space and cost does become a concern as tanks get larger. would a 40g (turned on it's size) be sufficiently large for a trio of U. Sikorae? If not, would a 50g? 60g? I want to know where the minimum really falls (based on your experiences) so I can shoot to exceed it without going overboard and using all my available space.

40 gallon is fine. I have mine in a 30 gallon standing on end (tall) with a custom door. I house 2 in there (1.1). They're more than happy. Id definitely upgrade to a 40 or 50 gallon if I had 3.

Vivarium structure isn't discussed anywhere that I can find. I reviewed vivarium pictures various members of this board posted and saw some common but conflicting themes. Some members have all glass/acrylic vivariums while others use screen mesh similar to that used for chameleons and iguanas. Since humidity is of such importance (80%-100% if I'm not mistaken), how can a mesh enclosure be adequate?

Screen is not good for this application unless you have an auto misting system and drainage. Otherwise, glass/acrylic with a screen somewhere for ventilation. Yes high humidity is important but these aren't frogs, they can dry out a bit during the day. Check average humidity charts in Madagascar, it dips down to the 70% range in the afternoons especially in the winter

Planting

I've seen a lot of planted vivariums, but never any real justification for the plants used. Are these plants simply to add some humidity and environmental appeal, or are they meant to be used as climbing platforms for the geckos? Some of the pictures I've seen show plants which appear too flimsy to hold an active adult Sikorae, but I could be wrong.

There's other factors here - planted vivariums are much different than non planted as far as care and setup. Since you're experienced I'm assuming you know the difference. Yes the plants are there for humidity, freshness of air, ambiance (looks) and to give the creatures a natural feel. Most of these species can adapt to their backgrounds. Pick things that look like them. Cork bark backgrounds with planted trees and driftwood going everywhere are my favorite - thats what i have in mine. They're not going to be supported by all the leaves of all the plants - but thats ok -they're very aware of it. I'm personally a huge fan of planted trees. My geckos spend 90% of their time awake and asleep on the trees in their vivs rather than the backgrounds or glass. Use of space is a huge factor. A 100 gallon tank with nothing to climb on is worse than a 20 gallon with lots of vertical and horizontal branches. A permanent background is highly recommended. Do it custom or buy a precut insert - don't do the wallpaper thing. They WILL make use of the environment you give them. It's extremely rewarding to set up a vivarium correctly with these species - they almost become part of it.

Temperature

There is disagreement on temperature requirements for U. Sikorae. Some resources I've read say daytime temperatures between 78-84F, others say 74-78F, other say 72-26F, all with variable night time drops going down as low as 62F. The reptiles I have experience with don't tolerate such huge ranges well, especially on the hottest and coldest ends. In your experiences as keepers and breeders, what temperatures do these guys seem to thrive best in?

These aren't the smaller kind of geckos which are extremely sensitive to heat and cold and will not die within minutes of exceeding certain temps. However they are still fragile. Higher temps will hurt them faster than cold because the canopy coverage in their natural climate is nearly 80% - they're never in direct sunlight. In fact direct unblocked sunlight can kill them VERY fast. Look at the temperatures in the northeast end of Madagascar. Highs are 84 degrees. Lows are 50. There is probably controversy of optimal temps because of how people treat their animals. Are you trying to mimick their natural environment exactly, or will you allow them to be subject to temperature changes in your home due to your local climate? Madacascar seasons are like Hawaii seasons - not extreme. They also happen to be opposite of us (june winter, december summer). Most people (including me) let room temperature decide the vivarium temperature and thats usually just fine because climate control in a single room is sometimes expensive and difficult, and room temps are 72 - 76 degrees on average.

That said, in direct answer to your question, they will die at 48 and 90 and could be damaged at 52 and 87. 55 and 85 are you warnings that you MUST do something about the temps. Thats why you want to keep them between 60 and 80. Right now mine have been at 81 all summer +-1 degree. In the winter they will be at 68 and 73. If you're measuring temperature in your tank make sure you do it at a few points. Even though flourescents aren't supposed to emit heat, their enclosures do and it can throw off your readings.

I'm sure I'll come up with more questions, but those are the ones I find most pressing and unanswered from all my research thus far. Thanks again for your help!

Here's my setup. Taller one with the door open is for the giant leaftails, smaller is for the mossies. There's 1.1 in each cage. These cages are also misted automatically and I highly recommend it. If I were to do it again I'd definitely put a small waterfall in for drinking, although that's not favored by all uroplatus keepers.

[Gexkko]

Thanks for the awesome reply! You answered a lot of my more pressing questions, and I appreciate it.

After a bit more research, I decided to look into my local hardware store for glass panes. The prices are very reasonable and I'm a fairly handy person, so I'm going to give a go at making a custom glass tank either 24x24x36 or 24x24x48, modeled after the exo terra/zoo med designs. I'll post up some pics for critique in the next couple weeks.

On the note of waterfalls, I've seen those mentioned in other places, but not frequently. I was debating adding one to my shopping list, but I wasn't sure of the actual benefits vs simple aesthetics. I do intend to invest in an automatic misting system (probably mistking or similar) and will be assembling the tank with that in mind.

[Fumbles]

Originally Posted by Gexkko

Thanks for the awesome reply! You answered a lot of my more pressing questions, and I appreciate it.

After a bit more research, I decided to look into my local hardware store for glass panes. The prices are very reasonable and I'm a fairly handy person, so I'm going to give a go at making a custom glass tank either 24x24x36 or 24x24x48, modeled after the exo terra/zoo med designs. I'll post up some pics for critique in the next couple weeks.

On the note of waterfalls, I've seen those mentioned in other places, but not frequently. I was debating adding one to my shopping list, but I wasn't sure of the actual benefits vs simple aesthetics. I do intend to invest in an automatic misting system (probably mistking or similar) and will be assembling the tank with that in mind.

These animals cannot swim and commonly fall off branches, glass and other things in their enclosures. If you put a waterfall in, 1" deep at most - shoulder height. Cover the drain with screen then pebbles.

I should clarify why I said I'd do a waterfall - geckos poop in their water. Thats the only reason mine come off of the trees. If I had a waterfall with filter and drainage I wouldn't need to change the water so often. I have a water dish. If they poop in it at the beginning of the night...well then there's a big turd in their drinking water all night. If I leave a for a few days, then it just sits there building bacteria. So a small corner waterfall just for drinking would be cool. Don't waste your money on a premade one if you're handy at building things. Make your own if you can.

I thought about a half land half aquarium setup, but upon further observation of their not so graceful nature, I decided against it.

[luevelvet]

Originally Posted by Fumbles

These animals cannot swim and commonly fall off branches, glass and other things in their enclosures. If you put a waterfall in, 1" deep at most - shoulder height. Cover the drain with screen then pebbles.

I should clarify why I said I'd do a waterfall - geckos poop in their water. Thats the only reason mine come off of the trees. If I had a waterfall with filter and drainage I wouldn't need to change the water so often. I have a water dish. If they poop in it at the beginning of the night...well then there's a big turd in their drinking water all night. If I leave a for a few days, then it just sits there building bacteria. So a small corner waterfall just for drinking would be cool. Don't waste your money on a premade one if you're handy at building things. Make your own if you can.

I thought about a half land half aquarium setup, but upon further observation of their not so graceful nature, I decided against it.

While the rest of the information shared is pretty accurate (IME) I'd like to respectfully disagree with Fumbles on the waterfall idea.

While it's a nice thought that a filtered waterfall would be less maintenance or less worry for bacterial buildup, in practice the opposite is actually true. Having worked with 100's of imports in the past few years, I know from experience that it doesn't take much moisture to spread a pretty nasty parasite infection to any inhabitants in the same enclosure. Worms and Coccidian oocysts will remain in wet soil, gravel etc and not be filtered out by anything that would be deemed safe to have in an enclosure. If you only have one or two enclosures, providing a clean bowl of water each night would be much less work and risk than a water fall.

Cheers!

Luis

[pakinjak]

While I've got way less personal experience than Lue, and probably than Fumbles too, I'm no fan of a waterfall. It doesn't make much sense, since whatever is in any part of it will make it to every other part of it. It does make sense to me to place a dish of water and just change it when it gets funky or very day or two.

Overall, I think it's less maintenance and more hygienic to use a dish.

[mttycaz85]

I use a 30gal vert for my pair and they seem to love it.