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Thread: Supplements

  1. #1
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    So I've had my gecko, Bonita, for almost a month now. She ate after less than a week and now regularly eats mealworms from a bowl if I offer her them. I'm currently feeding her every other day and twice I week I give her food dusted with MINER-All Indoor. She's currently transitioning over to crickets from mealworms, which she was fed most of her life, and its taking some work. She likes hunting them and I managed to tong feed her 3 last night but they're usually too fast for her and sometimes I feel as if she has a had time determining where they are, I've read about enigma syndrome a bit and it gets me so worried when she has a hard time catching food right in front of her face.


    I've tried putting her in a tub with some crickets and letting her catch them but she just ignores them and tries to escape the tub. I want to just toss them in her tank but there's lots of hiding spots for the crickets, in her warm hide, cool hide, moist hide, in the rock pile under her driftwood bridge, under the papertowel in her poop corner, and so on. Is just throwing them in my best option? I have some dusted crickets, with their back legs removed, in a bowl for her and I think she ate a couple but I'm not sure.

    Anyway back to my main question; how often should I give her a multivitamin? MINER-All is a calcium+D3 supplement but it does not have all the necessary vitamins. I was thinking of dusting once a month with Reptivite and just giving her a nice diet of properly gut loaded crickets. Am I correct in assuming this will work for her?

  2. #2
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    As far as I know Miner-All Indoor totally lacks any preformed vitamin A acetate, a very necessary vitamin for eye and skin health. Moreover, vitamin A acetate is difficult to obtain via a leopard gecko's normal diet. Research on chameleons has shown that chams, at least, do not metabolize beta carotene well.

    What are you feeding the mealworms?

    @thorrshamri
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside an enclosure <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

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    Mealworms have never been an appropriate staple diet for insectivorous reptiles at large. They can be used as a very occasional treat, not more than this.

    -Their digetive tract is very short. Really. So...even if you gutload them, the benefits of gutloading will go off in no time.
    -Unless you only feed the ones which have just shed and look white, they are way too chitinous, it means they are hard to digest for geckos.
    -They are the most unbalanced commonly offered feeder insect as regards the calcium-phosphorous ration (mealworms are very low in calcium and contain a high amount of phosphorous).
    -They are very fat, really too much.

    All of these facts show they shouldn't be used on a regular basis.

    Ok, they are cheap, just like junk food for humans is cheap. Do I really need to say how bad junk food is?

    As for vitamin A and provitamin A, this is completely off-topic; I have seen many posts lately from Elizabeth about this topic...What is actually used in most supplements is Beta-Caroten, and not only in Miner-All. It is the same molecule found in supplements for humans needing Vitamin A intakes. It clearly shows how "bad" Miner-All is (yes, I can sometimes use some irony ). Oh, do you really know what effects a vitamin A deficiency has on vertebrates? The main effect is...blindness. Side effects of such a deficiency also include at a lower level a slow growth rate and animals more likely to catch frequent infections. Apart from juveniles with a birth defect that has nothing to do with Vitamin A, I have personally never seen any case of blindness on geckos caused by a deficiency. Animals which have a severe eye wound may sometimes lose an eye, again, it has nothing to do with vitamin A. A poor immune system and a slow growth rate can also be due to a lot of reasons apart from the lack of vitamin A. Geckos becoming blind without having eye injuries or a certain fragility due to the albino gene, or because of an inappropriate light spectrum (for example, a small amount of UV of the wavelength C may cause blindness, and UVC are sometimes found at low levels in compact UVB bulbs from Hagen/ExoTerra).

    So...why posting again and again on an issue when true vitamin A deficiencies are really hard to prove and only concern a REALLY small minoroty, I'd say far less than 1%, of captive geckos? Proven cases in geckos are as rare as in dogs, cats and humans. Read the vet literature to make yourself an idea on the statistics.

    Again and once more, it is off topic and just makes the owners freak out for no reason. As for me, I'm wondering if I'll see on threads about a gecko with a missing leg or a broken jaw with accusations on vitamin A and/r Miner-All
    "Thorr Geckos" private breeder in Normandy.

    Specialized in Ptenopus, Pachydactylus, Chondrodactylus, Hemidactylus, Ptyodactylus, Uroplatus genera, AFTs, picta, Gehyra marginata, South Americans, Ptychs...

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    xxohmycaptainxx: by using mainly crickets, you're doing things right for your gecko diet. Oh, as you have prbably noticed, D3 is the only vitamin present in Miner-All I(ndoors). In this product, it contains just the right amount f D3, enough to avoid deficiencies, and not too much to risk any overdosing (which would be the case with Reptivite which contains way too much D3).
    FYI, I've been using Miner-All I for about 12 years dusted on prey insects on every feeding on my animals. Never had any issue with it. With 100+ species of geckos and far more individuals than this on the total, not a single case of kidney stone, MBD, blindness, or anything which could put into question the use of Miner-All I on every feeding. Stick Tongue Farms does recommend dusting on every other feeding. Ok. I have talked about it with Linda Davison, who is one of the heads of Sticky Tongue Farms. These recommendations are based on Maths, but do not take at all into account the fact that prey insect quickly lose most of their dusting. After a few hours, it's all completely gone. So if crickets are not all eaten within the next 1-2 hours after feeding, there is really nothing to worry about
    "Thorr Geckos" private breeder in Normandy.

    Specialized in Ptenopus, Pachydactylus, Chondrodactylus, Hemidactylus, Ptyodactylus, Uroplatus genera, AFTs, picta, Gehyra marginata, South Americans, Ptychs...

    FORUM RULES HERE! PLEASE READ THEM CAREFULLY, ESPECIALLY NEWCOMERS TO GU! http://www.geckosunlimited.com/commu...les-rules.html
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    Have you read post #22? What am I to think?

    Hilde writes this final paragraph:

    "Some people shy away from supplementing with pre-formed Vitamin A. It's been proven that geckos need it, they can't convert beta-carotene well enough to make do with just that. If the parents of your gecko were only supplemented with beta-carotene, no pre-formed Vit A, then they were prime candidates for a Vit A deficiency, and their offspring suffered the consequences. At the very least, add some pre-formed Vit A to the supplements a few times a month. Most can be beta-carotene, but the bit of pre-formed A will tide them over until they get enough beta-carotene converted."

    PS: Zoo Med's Reptivite is manufactured with and without vitamin D3. I've always recommended no D3 Reptivite.
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 05-30-2015 at 06:20 AM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside an enclosure <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)
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    Off topic again and again. Please, focus on the initial post and only on this.

    P.S.: it's useless to repeat the same things again and again, I think after 4 or 5 times I have understood you recommend Reptivite without D3. Or are you afraid of me suffering from memory dumps or even from Alzheimer?
    "Thorr Geckos" private breeder in Normandy.

    Specialized in Ptenopus, Pachydactylus, Chondrodactylus, Hemidactylus, Ptyodactylus, Uroplatus genera, AFTs, picta, Gehyra marginata, South Americans, Ptychs...

    FORUM RULES HERE! PLEASE READ THEM CAREFULLY, ESPECIALLY NEWCOMERS TO GU! http://www.geckosunlimited.com/commu...les-rules.html
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    I dust my crickets with multi vitamins every three feedings.

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    So I went ahead and bought reptivite without D3. From what I've read, as long as I properly gutload my crickets I should be fine dusting with the reptivite every 2-4 weeks. I'm going to start off doing it every 2 weeks, just until I can be sure that my method of cricket care and gut loading are working properly, and then I'll most likely switch to dusting with the reptivite every 4 weeks.

    I'm currently waiting on a few other supplements, for my pacman frog, to arrive as well as the Zoo Med Bearded Dragon Adult Formula food, that was recommended in the leopard gecko care guide as a proven gut load for crickets, so when that arrives I'll start properly gut loading my crickets.

    Atm I'm only feeding them dandelion greens, and that Fluker's Cricket Gut Load, the one that looks like oats. I know the Fluker's is basically useless but its all I have atm. Still trying to figure out how I'm going to feed her. As stated there are lots of hiding spots for crickets in her tank, but the main one is the rock pile under her driftwood bridge. The pile isn't too big and secure enough not to tumble and hurt my gecko but it has cracks that crickets can easily hide. I think this Friday I'll remove it, and use silicone to attach the rocks and seal all the cracks so no cricket can hide in them.

    Its very hard to get her to eat crickets still, the last time I fed her them was the day I posted this thread. I ended up putting the crickets she wouldn't eat in her food dish. She eventually ate them all except for one. As I said before their backlegs were removed so they couldn't hop. At least she ate them, I'm just not gunna do that method anymore it was so stressful. According to my schedule she needed dusted food last night, and since I am low on crickets and they aren't being properly gut loaded I chose to go with mealworms that had been fed carrots, that's what I feed my mealworms. I dusted them and just added them to the bowl. Out of the 15 I gave her only like 6ish are left.

    Anyway to conclude things, when my supplements arrive and all I'll switch permanantly to crickets and make sure she gets crickets that have been properly gut loaded, I've read the cricket care guidelines already btw.
    Last edited by xxohmycaptainxx; 06-01-2015 at 05:13 PM.

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    How about using a feeding dish, just high enough to prevent crickets from escaping, and remove their hind/hopping legs? many keepers do that, and that avoids wandering crickets in the tank.

    And let's be a bit logic. In the wild, provided they really need vitamin A and not provitamin A, how do they get sufficient amounts of it? Simply by eating insects which ate themselves a variety of food. I use a few dog pellets for my crickets, some of them contain vitamin A. The rest of my crickets' food is greens, veg, organic hay, wheat bran, oranges, apples, zucchini, figs, mango, papaya...whatever is available. Really, no need to be scared about vitamin A issues as long as you gutload crickets well enough. If someone shows me a single case of vitamin A deficiency really proven through analyses and researches I may change my opinion, now for 18 years keeping geckos I haven't seen a single case of this, either with my own animals or at other friends who keep tons of geckos!
    "Thorr Geckos" private breeder in Normandy.

    Specialized in Ptenopus, Pachydactylus, Chondrodactylus, Hemidactylus, Ptyodactylus, Uroplatus genera, AFTs, picta, Gehyra marginata, South Americans, Ptychs...

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    More about vitamins -all vertebrates need vitamin C. Did you (Liz and captain) that vitamin A oxydates through the oxygen present in the air within 30 minutes? Once combined with oxygen, it is just useless. Check on sites about fresh, homemade orange juices for example. The same applies to Vitamin C tablets exposed to ambient air. Still, 99,9% of humans and geckos alike don't suffer from scorbut, the disease induced by a vitamin A deficiency, unless you are a 18th Century sailor unable to store fresh fruit and fresh meat
    "Thorr Geckos" private breeder in Normandy.

    Specialized in Ptenopus, Pachydactylus, Chondrodactylus, Hemidactylus, Ptyodactylus, Uroplatus genera, AFTs, picta, Gehyra marginata, South Americans, Ptychs...

    FORUM RULES HERE! PLEASE READ THEM CAREFULLY, ESPECIALLY NEWCOMERS TO GU! http://www.geckosunlimited.com/commu...les-rules.html
    Thanks xxohmycaptainxx thanked for this post

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