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  1. #1
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    hi all me again! lol

    just wondering, we have been dusting gerry's food with nutrobal, i was just wondering if this can be used as the calcium powder you can leave in the viv, we havent been doing this, but it has just occured to us that we havent got any in there like it seems we are supposed to.
    we wasnt told or shown any in the shop when we brought him so . . . . .
    we are going back today to get a heat mat so can look for the right stuff if needs be?

    Also got some good news!, HE HAS STARTED EATING! lol he is a right gannit, he took 3-4 small mealworms off the feeding tweezer last night and then we placed 3 more in his bowl over night and he ate all them too! the little piglet although i dont blame him as he must have been starving given hes hardly eaten over the last week lol x
    A leopard gecko called Geri/Gerry ( unsexed ), A Border Collie called Misty aged 6

    And the most dangerous of all a man child called chris, had him nearly 5 years and still untrained lol x

  2. #2
    norea's Avatar
    norea is offline Junior member
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    this is what i am doing at the moment... i ONLY leave calc powder in his tank... BUT i am planning to get calc+D3 dusted on his food every now and then ...same goes to multi vits...

  3. #3
    Elizabeth Freer's Avatar
    Elizabeth Freer is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by princessclark View Post
    hi all me again! lol

    just wondering, we have been dusting gerry's food with nutrobal, i was just wondering if this can be used as the calcium powder you can leave in the viv, we havent been doing this, but it has just occured to us that we havent got any in there like it seems we are supposed to.
    we wasnt told or shown any in the shop when we brought him so . . . . .
    we are going back today to get a heat mat so can look for the right stuff if needs be?

    Also got some good news!, HE HAS STARTED EATING! lol he is a right gannit, he took 3-4 small mealworms off the feeding tweezer last night and then we placed 3 more in his bowl over night and he ate all them too! the little piglet although i dont blame him as he must have been starving given hes hardly eaten over the last week lol x
    Congratulations on the eating part!

    I don't know what Nutrobal is. You need to make certain by reading the small print that it is a phosphorous-free calcium with D3. You should lightly dust with that 3x per week. You should also leave pure calcium in the tank 24/7. Also by Rep-Cal, get the Herptivite multivitamins with beta carotene. Those are good supplements and the only supplements I use.

    Have you found the comprehensive sticky posted at the top of the posts in the leo subforum? These two posts in one will answer many of your questions!

    Your heat pad should measure 1/3 the length of your tank according to Graham's advice.
    "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain."

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    Health Questionnaire

    ===> URGENT: No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium EVER <===


    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Lygodactylus kimhowelli ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ P. tigrinus

  4. #4
    Jasonp85 is offline Junior member
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    Yea you nees calcium w d3 pure calcium and the vitamin like liz said I have a web site I shop for everything on pm me or shoot me a email and ill give it to u if u want it they run a spcial on the vit and cal w d3 in a package deal for 11.99$ us idk if they ship over seas.
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  5. #5
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    The pet shop we brought him from said they just use the nutrobal stuff they told us to buy for dusting the feed in x
    The ingredients are ( per g ):
    200g calcium & 150IU D3, plus vitamins A E K B1 B2 B12 C, folic, nicotinic & pantothenic acids, botin choline niacin and mineral Na Fe Co I Mn Zn Se Cu
    A leopard gecko called Geri/Gerry ( unsexed ), A Border Collie called Misty aged 6

    And the most dangerous of all a man child called chris, had him nearly 5 years and still untrained lol x

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    I prefer the ZooMed ReptiCalcium product on the left,



    The ZooMed product is produced by a very different method than the RepCal brand calcium dust. ZooMed uses precipitated calcium carbonate where RepCal uses oyster shell calcium carbonate.

    The main differences between the two are that the ZooMed product contains more elemental calcium on average than the RepCal product (38%min - 43% vs. 35% - 40%), ZooMed contains less vitamin D3 per Kg than the RepCal product (22,907 IU/Kg vs 400,000 IU/Kg), and the ZooMed product is way more fine, there is simply no way to describe the difference between the two products other than "I'm not dusting my insects with anything that I can see the size of a single particle".

    Both products are Phosphorous free, I prefer the ZooMed calcium because it is unlikely to contain heavy metals like lead due to the manufacturing process precipitated calcium carbonate goes through.

    Different people like each brand for their own reasons, I'm just stating my prefered brand here. I don't sell the stuff or work for ZooMed, and I'm not particularly fond of most of their products except their calcium.

    Maurice Pudlo

    PS. Use the calcium without vitamin D3 inside the enclosure, the calcium with D3 to dust insects.

    The Nutrobal website says not to use it inside the enclosure.
    http://www.vetark.co.uk/pages/Nutrob...spx?pageid=228
    Last edited by MauricesExoticPets; 03-08-2011 at 02:46 PM.
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  7. #7
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    ok will look at getting something else for in the tank x
    A leopard gecko called Geri/Gerry ( unsexed ), A Border Collie called Misty aged 6

    And the most dangerous of all a man child called chris, had him nearly 5 years and still untrained lol x

  8. #8
    Elizabeth Freer's Avatar
    Elizabeth Freer is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by princessclark View Post
    ok will look at getting something else for in the tank x
    You can buy pure calcium powder in health food stores. Some is extremely fine-grained.

    Am I correct in thinking Gerry is young because you say he is not sexed?

    Directly from the Nutrobal website: "leopard geckos, supplements and UV
    I was just about to buy some multivitamins for my recently aquired leopard geckos and after a bit of research I have come to the conclusion that most people use nutrobal for both adults and juveniles. I see that you recommend arkvits for adults and nutrobal for juveniles. I would like to hear what you recommend when it comes to calcium intake for an adult male leopard gecko, adult fertile female and juvenile respectively. As I previously mentioned a lot of people seem to be using either nutrobal at every feeding, or nutrobal once or twice a week and then calcium powder for all other feedings.

    Broadly, we recommend Nutrobal for juveniles and Arkvits for adults, used alternate feeding days, and CalciDust on the other days. We recommend a supplement every day so that they expect to eat white crickets, rather than the less dusty brown ones.

    It isn't calcium which is the problem, without vit D the calcium goes in one end and out of the other. Vit D is very important, and in leopard geckos because they are nocturnal there is a question mark over the amount of UV you should provide. Excess UV in all species is a problem and can cause metastatic calcification issues, it simply isn't needed for nocturnal species such as leopard geckos which would barely be exposed to it in the wild. The problem is that its completely unregulated, people use a variety of UV sources, some of which are toxic etc. Some also use other Vit D sources."
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 03-09-2011 at 04:54 AM.
    "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain."

    Click:
    Leopard Gecko Care Sheet
    Health Questionnaire

    ===> URGENT: No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium EVER <===


    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Lygodactylus kimhowelli ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ P. tigrinus

  9. #9
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    Maurice ~

    What are the differences in manufacturing Rep-Cal calcium with D3 versus ZooMed calcium with D3 which makes the latter a superior choice for you? You mention heavy metals like lead resulting from the production. As a consumer you mention that the ZooMed product is finer and thereby sticks to the feeders better.

    I have the ZooMed pure calcium product and also the NOW brand "human-grade" Calcium Carbonate powder---very fine and 100% pure according to the label. I don't particularly like superfine calcium for dusting mourning geckos' prey. Reason is that I feed them in those 16 ounce hexagonal betta containers. If the calcium powder is too fine, it sticks to the mourning geckos' feet and makes it temporarily impossible for them to climb out of their feeding container.

    The Rep-Cal phosphorous-free label suggests a 1.5:1 Ca:P ratio. Other places I've read suggest a 2:1 Ca:P ratio. What do you recommend?

    I like to share the best recommendations possible for the geckos here. If my knowledge needs updating, go for it .
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 03-09-2011 at 05:18 AM.
    "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain."

    Click:
    Leopard Gecko Care Sheet
    Health Questionnaire

    ===> URGENT: No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium EVER <===


    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Lygodactylus kimhowelli ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ P. tigrinus

  10. #10
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    Precipitated calcium carbonate (PCC) is more a process description than a differing form of calcium carbonate. Think of the same way you would distilled water vs spring water, they are both water, the former is just closer to H2O because of the process.

    The process of making PCC is designed to remove impurities such as lead and any other heavy metals leaving only calcium carbonate as the finished product. PCC starts life in about the same place where RepCal is when you buy it, from there it is processed by a number of methods to eliminate impurities.

    Calcium carbonate is just that, oyster shell calcium carbonate contains less actual calcium because it contains a number of impurities some of which are not desirable including lead.

    The particle size of ground calcium is not very uniform and contains both larger and smaller particles with vastly differing surface areas. I prefer small particle size because that increases total surface area on which the stomach acid can act, thus improving availability of the calcium to the geckos.

    I feed within the enclosure, mostly D. melanogaster, some D. hydei, a few tropical roaches, beetle larva, small moths, etc. all very lightly dusted with the PCC prior to tossing them into the Mourning gecko enclosures. I use only enough to coat the insects lightly, which they seem to find difficult to remove prior to being consumed. I generally feed two or more times per day, which allows me to feed less at each sitting.

    Calcium is better absorbed when taken in smaller doses throughout the day anyway so this is another side benefit purely based on method, and multiplied by the PCCs higher total surface area.

    I do not container feed, except of course the CGD, I think the geckos hear the tapping out of fruit flies, or whatever it is that is being fed that day, and they all come to the feeding area within the enclosures. I toss in the food and they go at it, the smaller prey I use insures that there are plenty of feeders to chase down by each gecko, so food fights are rare, and the geckos remain highly active.

    The 2:1 vs 1.5:1 ratios issue is something we will likely never achieve to any degree of accuracy beyond knowing that calcium reserves are stable and present, signs of MBD are absent, and egg formation is consistent and acceptable through the embryos development.

    I believe I am able to use a smaller quantity of the PCC form of calcium overall because of its own qualities and my methods of use. I believe it is a more pure form of calcium delivery, with less chance of heavy metal contamination, which makes me feel more secure in its use long term.

    As a side note, I also use it in gut loading insects as its finer grain structure is more accepted by them when combined with the diets I develop for that purpose.

    I suggest (if you try the PCC in container feeding) you should use less, only enough to lightly coat the insects being fed off at that meal. There should be little to no extra dust in the container. Dust on the container is wasted product anyway.

    For the OP, I'm not sure ZooMed is available to you where you are, but if you do have access to it either by your local pet shop or by ordering it online it is something to consider. The version without vitamin D3 should be selected for use inside the enclosure.

    Maurice Pudlo
    To learn and to teach

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