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    Default Male leo note eating/losing some weight


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    Hey folks,

    I got my male back at the end of January, aged about 2 months. A couple months ago he started eating irregularly, refusing crickets but still eating mealworms. But as of late, about the past month, he seems to be refusing all food. Crickets, mealworms, dubias, hormworms - he's not eating anything. When he started to refuse crickets, he was eating the mealworms sparsely but polished off the dish eventually. He's slowly started to eat less and less, until the point he's seemed to stop eating.

    I wasn't worried at first because he didn't seem to be losing weight and thought it may have just been a phase in growing since he's still young, and was still acting lively. But he's losing weight now and has become more sedentary so the worry kicked in. He was at 56g a couple weeks ago but down to 50g just now. I did managed to manually feed him a horn worm the other day after a bit of coaxing.

    He's about 5 or 6 months. Living in a 10 gallon enclosure with warm hide, warm moist hide made of a tupperware container filled with mostly vermiculite and some sphagnum moss, and cool hide. Heat mat underneath controlled with thermostat set to 92F (heat gun reads a couple degrees over in some spots so I just lowered to 90F). Substrate is paper towels. I found a recent poop that seems to be all white and porous if that's a clue, picture attached.

    Any and all help is much appreciated!

    poopic.jpg
    Thanks Elizabeth Freer thanked for this post

  2. #2
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    Thanks.

    Do you think Brucey has eaten the vermiculite? How does his belly feel? Does the "poop" in your picture feel like vermiculite? Don't feed him any more until we figure this out!

    Be sure to keep fresh water in his enclosure 24/7.

    I strongly recommend removing the vermiculite right away!!! Substitute sphagnum moss. (Some leos also eat sphagnum moss. )

    IF Brucey's belly feels hard (or unusually firm), I recommend a vet consultation right away for potential vermiculite impaction.

    At 56 grams ---> now 50 grams Brucey is definitely ready for an upgrade. A 20 long (30 x 12 x 12 inch high) is an ideal home. Frequently PetCo has 20 longs on sale for $1-per-gallon. There would be some additional upgrades like a larger heat mat.
    + 11 x 17 inch Ultratherm heat mat
    + maybe a slate substrate, if you'd like to go that route

    GU can help you do this.
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 06-02-2020 at 04:27 PM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside an enclosure <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

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    Hey Elizabeth, thanks for the quick response! I'm tossing the vermiculite now and putting in the moss. Do you recommend Coco fiber at all? I'm going to replace it in my females' cage as well so I'm thinking mostly in terms of something for them to lay their eggs in.

    His stomach is bit firmer than my female's but I'm not so sure about unusually so, and there doesn't seem to be any discoloration so far. Although he was getting defensive when I was poking around at his stomach (mouth open). Are there any other evident signs of impaction? I have seen him drinking water

    The poop didn't seem to feel like or contain any vermiculite, although now I'm not too sure if it was poop or possibly regurgitation. It was unusually long and very spongy, the inside literally looked like a sea sponge. Thanks for the tips on the enclosure upgrade as well. Petco has a 20 gallon long for $35, sans top. Any pointers on where to find both for relatively cheap?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brucey View Post
    Hey Elizabeth, thanks for the quick response! I'm tossing the vermiculite now and putting in the moss. Do you recommend Coco fiber at all? I'm going to replace it in my females' cage as well so I'm thinking mostly in terms of something for them to lay their eggs in.

    His stomach is bit firmer than my female's but I'm not so sure about unusually so, and there doesn't seem to be any discoloration so far.
    Although he was getting defensive when I was poking around at his stomach (mouth open). Are there any other evident signs of impaction? I have seen him drinking water

    The poop didn't seem to feel like or contain any vermiculite, although now I'm not too sure if it was poop or possibly regurgitation. It was unusually long and very spongy, the inside literally looked like a sea sponge. Thanks for the tips on the enclosure upgrade as well. Petco has a 20 gallon long for $35, sans top. Any pointers on where to find both for relatively cheap?
    You're welcome! Excellent move! Be sure to compact Brucey's sphagnum moss!!! I think compacted moss is very safe. That's exactly what my leo has. She's been fine with it for years.

    Not eating could = impaction.

    The white substance in your photo does not "look like" regurgitation. It seems way too large for regurgitation. Vermiculite is manufactured in different colors. Perlite is white.

    If it was vermiculite, I am worried that Brucey may still have vermiculite in his stomach. Additional real food could back him up more. That's why keeping him as hydrated as possible is best right now.

    Please give Brucey daily warm soaks @ 86*F (a leo's preferred body temperature) for up to 30 minutes each. Gently massage his belly in a throat-to-vent manner during these soaks. Let's see what happens after 7 days of soaks like this.

    I recently bought this terra cotta hide for my leo in size large. I haven't tried it out yet. This hide should do a great job as a warm moist hide.

    This cave will keep humidity higher 24/7. Since the humidification cave is made from clay, colors vary some. Use this cave + an 8 ounce water dish for your leo. Find out when Amazon is expecting more large caves like this.
    Click: https://www.amazon.com/OMEM-Reptiles.../dp/B01M1NTI44

    Sizes
    Small: 3.54'' x 2.76'' x 2.36''
    Medium: 4.72'' x 3.35'' x 2.95''
    Large: 5.9'' x 4.72'' x 3.74''

    I would not try coco fiber with Brucey at this time. Some leos WILL eat Eco Earth's coco fiber too. Some keepers use moistened paper towels. Some leos eat paper towels.

    For your female leo let's experiment with a "digging box" partially filled with moist coco fiber. That often makes a great environment for female leos to lay their eggs. Place the entry hole on the lid. That helps keep coco fiber inside the box.

    Ask PetCo when their next sale is happening. They have those sales every couple of months.


    EDIT:
    Sorry about that. PERLITE is white. Vermiculite is manufactured in different colors.
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 06-05-2020 at 04:15 AM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside an enclosure <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)
    Thanks Brucey thanked for this post

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    Excellent, thank you. I gave him a Warm soak today for ~20mins, massaged the belly area after the soak as he's not too happy to be in the bowl and very squirmy at any signs of let up. The vermiculite I have (Sta-Green brand) is actually mostly brown with traces of white. That being said his feces showed no sign of that color.

    Also his belly does seem to be pretty soft. Upon massaging, he loosened up a bit so I think any firmness I found last night was simply him tensing.
    Last edited by Brucey; 06-03-2020 at 11:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brucey View Post
    Excellent, thank you. I gave him a Warm soak today for ~20mins, massaged the belly area after the soak as he's not too happy to be in the bowl and very squirmy at any signs of let up. The vermiculite I have (Sta-Green brand) is actually mostly brown with traces of white. That being said his feces showed no sign of that color.

    Also his belly does seem to be pretty soft. Upon massaging, he loosened up a bit so I think any firmness I found last night was simply him tensing.
    You're welcome!

    Thanks for sharing the color of your vermiculite.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside an enclosure <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

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    A little update:

    I've been giving him warm soaks and rubbing his stomach - now every other day because he absolutely despises it. But he is pooping, both in cage and in the bowl while soaking so either I'm thinking impaction wasn't the issue or perhaps it's passed. The poops in cage do appear to be watery however, but is this normal as he hasn't eaten in a while? He does appear to be more active than he has been lately and feeling a bit better, although he's still not eating

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