Thoughts on Deep Heat Projectors

[SpottedDragon]

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I listened to an interesting CE on reptile husbandry from a veterinary standpoint earlier in the week, and these Deep Heat Projectors are getting popular for recover cages and being recommended over other forms of heating. But I also know from experience that veterinary medicine that is based solely on science isn't always practical for keepers.

The talk was on preventing GI stasis during and after illness / surgery / and treatments. Basically, the way the deep heat projectors work is more natural in that it heats the actual muscles under the skin both directly as radiation and via conduction from basking on natural substrate such as rocks. It helps 'keep them regular', esp if they are on antibiotics or have had anesthesia.

The thought was that UTH heat and heat from overhead CHE's or Bulbs are inefficient at deep tissue warming and have a narrow 'beams' that heat the substrate directly in a small area making the temperature gradient more ... harsh ... if that makes sense - like there are boundaries between what is warm and what is cool instead of small gradual changes.

The idea is that the deep heat encourages basking behavior and helps the gut move more effectively than belly heat alone, and even better than CHEs and Bulbs. This helps also with UVB absorption as long as the UVB bulb overlaps with the heat. *But* it seems to also rely on both having UVB of the right strength and thicker dark natural stone in the "basking" zone to be effective. Just a tile floor wouldn't be enough. Also this helps them identify where the "sun" and "shade" are.

Just wondering if any keepers out there have these projectors or have switched from more mainstream methods of heating and if so, did they notice any change in the behavior of their lizards?
I would be willing to try it as an experiment, (esp now that I am up grading my female's entire set up and have to buy a new UTH anyway), but am curious as I haven't really heard much about them before.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...527&height=442

Basically when we keep the air temp at a constant or narrow range then keep a UTH as the hot spot, we are preventing all the other types of heating, which while isn't technically bad, isn't as natural as it could be.

[Elizabeth Freer]

Just wondering if any keepers out there have these projectors or have switched from more mainstream methods of heating and if so, did they notice any change in the behavior of their lizards?
I would be willing to try it as an experiment, (esp now that I am up grading my female's entire set up and have to buy a new UTH anyway), but am curious as I haven't really heard much about them before.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...527&height=442

Basically when we keep the air temp at a constant or narrow range then keep a UTH as the hot spot, we are preventing all the other types of heating, which while isn't technically bad, isn't as natural as it could be.

While our "old methods" have kept leopard geckos alive sometimes for a very long time (note several leos in their 40s who live in the EU with 2 separate keepers), our former recommendations re UTHs are definitely dated! Upgrading may be a bit expensive to start, but well worth the cost in the end.

I'm torn between DHPs or halogen flood bulbs as a heat source. Slate is an ideal substrate whether used with or without a bioactive substrate.

For link 147 click: UVB for Leopard Geckos & other herps . . . . . . Frances Baines DVM + others -- December 2020 (update)

• The Nocturnal Leopard Gecko (Eublepharis macularius) uses UVB Radiation for Vitamin D3 Synthesis -- December 2020
• UVB Lighting Debate . . . . . . with Reptilelady, Dr. Frances M. Baines (GU's lilacdragon), + others -- January 2018
• An In-Depth Look At UV Light And Its Proper Use With Reptiles . . . . . . Dr. Francis M. Baines -- January/February 2017
• BIAZA RAWG UV Tool (Reptile Amphibian Working Group UV tool)
• Arcadia's LIGHTING, HEATING, JUNGLE DAWN, & EARTHPRO

For link 157 click: Best practices for using UVB through mesh on a 20 gallon long enclosure: 30 x 12 x 12 inches tall . . . . . . GU's Marillion, Fran Baines DVM, & Elizabeth Freer -- March 2021 (update)

For link 161 click: Arcadia Reptile's Deep Heat Projector, Habistat's & Herpstat's Digital Dimming Thermostats, & ShadeDweller Lighting -- November 2020 (update)


@Digs
@Marillion

[Digs]

I listened to an interesting CE on reptile husbandry from a veterinary standpoint earlier in the week, and these Deep Heat Projectors are getting popular for recover cages and being recommended over other forms of heating. But I also know from experience that veterinary medicine that is based solely on science isn't always practical for keepers.

The talk was on preventing GI stasis during and after illness / surgery / and treatments. Basically, the way the deep heat projectors work is more natural in that it heats the actual muscles under the skin both directly as radiation and via conduction from basking on natural substrate such as rocks. It helps 'keep them regular', esp if they are on antibiotics or have had anesthesia.

The thought was that UTH heat and heat from overhead CHE's or Bulbs are inefficient at deep tissue warming and have a narrow 'beams' that heat the substrate directly in a small area making the temperature gradient more ... harsh ... if that makes sense - like there are boundaries between what is warm and what is cool instead of small gradual changes.

The idea is that the deep heat encourages basking behavior and helps the gut move more effectively than belly heat alone, and even better than CHEs and Bulbs. This helps also with UVB absorption as long as the UVB bulb overlaps with the heat. *But* it seems to also rely on both having UVB of the right strength and thicker dark natural stone in the "basking" zone to be effective. Just a tile floor wouldn't be enough. Also this helps them identify where the "sun" and "shade" are.

Just wondering if any keepers out there have these projectors or have switched from more mainstream methods of heating and if so, did they notice any change in the behavior of their lizards?
I would be willing to try it as an experiment, (esp now that I am up grading my female's entire set up and have to buy a new UTH anyway), but am curious as I haven't really heard much about them before.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...527&height=442

Basically when we keep the air temp at a constant or narrow range then keep a UTH as the hot spot, we are preventing all the other types of heating, which while isn't technically bad, isn't as natural as it could be.

Deep heat projectors are the second best over head heaters for basking. The best heating source we have for imitating the infrared waves of the sun are incandescent lamps (including halogens). Deep heat projectors produce more infrared B than A, infrared A is what truly penetrates deep into the reptile. I’m about to make a video on my leopard gecko’s activity in a bioactive enclosure which has no heat mat, a 100 watt Exo Terra Daylight basking “spot” bulb, a 22 inch T5 5.0 ReptiSun 14 inches away from the basking zone, and a T5 fluorescent grow light for plants and better circadian rhythm. It took around 9 months for Asia to expose her entire body to the UVB and basking lamp. One time she was out for 2 hours before one of the lights turned off.

My lighting schedule:

Summer (Starting June)
Basking bulb: 6:00 AM-8:00 PM
Fluorescent tube: 6:30 AM - 7:30 PM
UVB: 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM

Into Fall/ Into Spring (3rd of September, 15th of March)
Basking bulb: 7:00 AM - 8:00 PM
Fluorescent tube: 7:30 AM - 7:30 PM
UVB: 8:00 AM - 7:00

Fall/spring ( October 15th, April 30th)
Basking bulb: 8:00 AM - 8:00 PM
Fluorescent tube: 8:30 AM - 7:30 PM
UVB: 9:00 AM - 7:00 PM

Winter (December 21st)
Basking bulb: 9:00AM-8:00PM
Fluorescent tube: 9:30-7:30 PM
UVB: 10:00 AM- 7:00 PM

[SpottedDragon]

[QUOTE=Elizabeth Freer;500597]While our "old methods" have kept leopard geckos alive sometimes for a very long time (note several leos in their 40s who live in the EU with 2 separate keepers), our former recommendations re UTHs are definitely dated! Upgrading may be a bit expensive to start, but well worth the cost in the end.]

I agree completely; and just because it is a tried and true method doesn't make it a poor choice - clearly its working well!
And for beginners, UTH are probably easier to regulate and maintain too

[SpottedDragon]

[QUOTE=Digs;500598]Deep heat projectors are the second best over head heaters for basking. The best heating source we have for imitating the infrared waves of the sun are incandescent lamps (including halogens). Deep heat projectors produce more infrared B than A, infrared A is what truly penetrates deep into the reptile. I’m about to make a video on my leopard gecko’s activity in a bioactive enclosure which has no heat mat, a 100 watt Exo Terra Daylight basking “spot” bulb, a 22 inch T5 5.0 ReptiSun 14 inches away from the basking zone, and a T5 fluorescent grow light for plants and better circadian rhythm. It took around 9 months for Asia to expose her entire body to the UVB and basking lamp. One time she was out for 2 hours before one of the lights turned off]

Where / how do you regulate the temperatures of the deep heat / neodynium lights with a thermostat? When I tried one with my Ball Python I had the probe on a slate block under a basking light- problem was he loved it and would then sprawl over the probe and block the thermostat lol- not as much an issue with the geckos, but how do you have your heat regulation set up? or do these type of lights not tend to get above a certain temp?

[Elizabeth Freer]

While our "old methods" have kept leopard geckos alive sometimes for a very long time (note several leos in their 40s who live in the EU with 2 separate keepers), our former recommendations re UTHs are definitely dated! Upgrading may be a bit expensive to start, but well worth the cost in the end.]

I agree completely; and just because it is a tried and true method doesn't make it a poor choice - clearly its working well!
And for beginners, UTH are probably easier to regulate and maintain too

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[Digs]

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[QUOTE=SpottedDragon;500602]

Deep heat projectors are the second best over head heaters for basking. The best heating source we have for imitating the infrared waves of the sun are incandescent lamps (including halogens). Deep heat projectors produce more infrared B than A, infrared A is what truly penetrates deep into the reptile. I’m about to make a video on my leopard gecko’s activity in a bioactive enclosure which has no heat mat, a 100 watt Exo Terra Daylight basking “spot” bulb, a 22 inch T5 5.0 ReptiSun 14 inches away from the basking zone, and a T5 fluorescent grow light for plants and better circadian rhythm. It took around 9 months for Asia to expose her entire body to the UVB and basking lamp. One time she was out for 2 hours before one of the lights turned off]

Where / how do you regulate the temperatures of the deep heat / neodynium lights with a thermostat? When I tried one with my Ball Python I had the probe on a slate block under a basking light- problem was he loved it and would then sprawl over the probe and block the thermostat lol- not as much an issue with the geckos, but how do you have your heat regulation set up? or do these type of lights not tend to get above a certain temp?

I no longer use a dimming thermostat for my neodynium lamp as the more a lamp is dimmed, the more the infrared heat is altered. I use a computer fan with a speed controller connected to a cooling thermostat, its in the air and controls the ambient temperature to be around 82F (27C). The heat lamp itself is connected to an on/off thermostat in case the fan fails and it will turn off the lamp when ambient temperatures reach 86F (30C). I like this method better than using a dimming thermostat with the probe on the ground as I can have good ambient temps with ground temps year round. It also cost less than most dimming thermostats in the USA.