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    Default What are their morphs?? #help


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    Hi all,

    I just bought 2 pairs of geckos (1st timer a.k.a noob) & now I have few babies from them.
    What I wanna know is how do I labeled the newborns' morph?
    I attached their photos with the data.
    Another question, is it possible if there is significant color differentiation between clutches? And how can I produce male gecko baby?
    Please help me out. Thank you in advance.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    I'm in a bind about how to respond. There are a few things that aren't clear about the post, so I'll start with that. When you say that the sire is "super snow eclipse Tremper albino" do you mean that the gecko itself is a Tremper albino, or that it has a gene for Tremper albino? I'm hoping it's the second option because there's no way that 2 Tremper albino geckos will produce any offspring that's not Tremper albino.
    It would be helpful if you could post pictures of the parents with the appropriate label. If you do that, I promise to continue my response after I see the pictures. Meanwhile, if you're not sure about the following terms --dominant, recessive, co-dominant, line bred/polygenetic, I recommend that you find out about them. This article may be helpful:
    https://geckotime.com/leopard-gecko-genetics-and-hets/

    Aliza
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    Hi ~

    Welcome to Geckos Unlimited!

    This may surprise you! You may already have produced some males!!! Leopard geckos generally aren't sexable until they are about 5 months old +.

    Aliza (acpart) can definitely recommend incubation temperatures that will reliably give you males.

    Sexing Leopard Geckos -- A leopard gecko's gender can be confirmed when that leo is over 5 inches (12.7 cm) in total length. That may happen when the leo nears 6 months old. Males can be distinguished from females by a distinct /\-shaped row of femoral pores above the vent and by two hemipenal bulges below the vent. To see their vents, potential male femoral pores, and hemipenal bulges gently press their bodies up against the glass. They'll squirm if you try to turn them over.


    Click here to sex your leo: Sexing Leopard Geckos
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 09-05-2022 at 04:30 PM.
    Click: Leopard Gecko Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Gekko kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (Phelsuma barbouri) ~ (Lygodactylus kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

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    Hi Aliza,
    Thank you for your response and pardon for my late reply due to my work. Well basically I'm a noob in gecko world and have zero experience in taking care of gecko.
    So when I bought my geckos, the seller (which I can't contact anymore) just gave me their morphs and their sex and that's it. I don't know if the morphs are correct or not, so I attached their photos here and maybe you or the other can help me to identify the babies' morphs.IMG-20220905-WA0000.jpgIMG-20220905-WA0001.jpg
    Thanks Elizabeth Freer thanked for this post

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.trashmouth View Post
    Hi all,

    I just bought 2 pairs of geckos (1st timer a.k.a noob) & now I have few babies from them.
    What I wanna know is how do I labeled the newborns' morph?

    I attached their photos with the data.
    Another question, is it possible if there is significant color differentiation between clutches? And how can I produce male gecko baby?
    Please help me out. Thank you in advance.
    So you live in Indonesia?

    Based upon the dates you've shared on your images, all 5 of your leopard gecko offspring are too young to visually sex. Click right here to sex your leo offspring: Sexing Leopard Geckos "You will have to wait til the Gecko is old enough, over 6 months at least to really be sure. Juvenile male Leopard Geckos look very much like females."

    Please check my message above for more specific data.
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 09-05-2022 at 04:33 PM.
    Click: Leopard Gecko Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Gekko kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (Phelsuma barbouri) ~ (Lygodactylus kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

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    I highly recommend you go back to the breeder to get more information if possible. The biggest problem is with picture 1. The gecko on the left is a tremper albino and may be a super snow. It is definitely not a blizzard; a blizzard would have no spots at all. I suspect it's a super snow albino that has a gene for blizzard. Blizzard is a recessive gene, so it can be passed on but will not show up visually unless the offspring has another parent with a blizzard gene as well. It's hard to tell whether or not the gecko is an eclipse because all super snows have solid colored eyes which is the eclipse trait. The breeder will have to tell you whether this gecko is definitely an eclipse, or whether it has a gene for eclipse.
    The gecko on the right may or may not be a mack snow. Mack snow geckos hatch black and white (or beige and white in the case of an albino) and get yellower as they mature. It is definitely not a tremper albino, though it may have a gene for Tremper albino. Albino geckos never have black markings.

    The geckos in the second picture appear to be what you have written down, though the "jungle" is more of a "stripe" which is just a more stripe-like presentation than the camouflage patterned jungle.
    I highly recommend you google some pictures of the morphs you've been told to see the similarities and differences.

    The puzzler is the gecko that hatched on August 11. It is obviously not a mack snow. That tells me that the non-albino parent is not a Mack snow either, because a gecko needs to have 1 copy of the mack snow gene to hatch black and white and 2 copies of the gene to hatch looking like a hatchling super snow. The problem is, that if your other gecko is a super snow, then it would be giving one copy of the mack snow gene to all the offspring and this doesn't seem to have happened here.

    I have a few recommendations:
    a. if you can, go back to the breeder and clarify which gecko has the actual visible traits and which have a gene for a trait which is not visible. Let the breeder know that your super snow gecko has produced a non Mack snow gecko and see what they have to say about that.

    b. It's going to be very hard for you to ethically sell your geckos as anything but pets because I don't think you have the correct genetic information (unless you can iron out with the breeder all the inconsistencies) about the parents or the offspring. A reasonable breeder of geckos would't want to use these geckos as breeders because their genetic history is largely unknown. There are other people who won't really care about the genetic history and will pair them up as if they were cats or dogs. Some people think that's fine, but those who are concerned about keeping genetic lines straight aren't too happy about that. You'll have to think about that and see how you feel.

    c. In general it's not a great idea (though obviously it's possible to do) to breed geckos without having accurate genetic information and without knowing enough about basic genetics to figure out the morphs of the offspring. I can see where identifying the morphs would be hard for you because I don't think you have complete and accurate information. The important thing is, I do feel strongly (and remember, no matter how strongly I feel, it's still just my opinion --though it's a lot of other people's opinions as well) that a responsible breeder understands enough about basic leopard gecko genetics to know what possible offspring outcomes could be and to tell what they are most of the time. My biggest recommendation is to continue to educate yourself to be able to do this.

    Feel free to ask additional questions if I haven't been clear about anything.

    Aliza
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    Wow, thank you so much for your detailed explanations. I will try to find another way to contact the breeder (he changed his phone numbers & his social media already deleted) and maybe for now it's best for me to separate the pairs. Worse come to worst I will try selling them as it is (wrote "morph unknown") as regular pets and not for breeding purposes. This is a valuable lessons for me to learn and will find the correct breeder first before I buy again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.trashmouth View Post
    Wow, thank you so much for your detailed explanations. I will try to find another way to contact the breeder (he changed his phone numbers & his social media already deleted) and maybe for now it's best for me to separate the pairs. Worse come to worst I will try selling them as it is (wrote "morph unknown") as regular pets and not for breeding purposes. This is a valuable lessons for me to learn and will find the correct breeder first before I buy again.
    I think that's a very responsible way to proceed. If you'd like, you can send me the name and location of the breeder in a PM and I'll see if ever heard of them.

    There are some things you will be able to tell people about your offspring:
    --all but one in the original pictures are Mack snows. As they mature, they may get yellower so it would be hard to tell, but you can tell buyers which ones you are sure are Mack snows (the ones that hatched with no yellow)
    --the one that's beige and white is a Tremper Albino Mack snow. So far, that's the only albino in the group


    Aliza
    Last edited by acpart; 09-06-2022 at 10:28 PM.

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    Forgot to ask, so the "unclear" one is only the macksnow pair and their hatchlings right? How about the other pair (giants) and their hatchling? Is it already correct despite the "jungle" term? If it is, what is the morph of the hatchling? Because maybe I will keep them instead & only release/sell the mack pair. Thanks in advance.

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    The hatchling from the giant pair (hopefully they really are giants) is an albino Mack snow jungle/stripe ("jungle" is just a less 'clean' type of stripe. This one can go either way). If the hatchling has solid eyes it's an eclipse; otherwise it's not.

    Aliza

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