[GeckoTom]

All this blabberers about animal protection and care.

All geckos and New Zealand animal life should be conserved!

I really coult vomit! Today the NZ government said that they will think about accepting the whale shooting of the Norway and Japanese ships!

That really says a lot of the government of a country and of their meaning of their native animals and animals that belong to the whole world and I really wish from my heart that all the animals of New Zealand would be smuggeld and taken away, so not even New Zealand has them in their property!

Maybe that is the way you like! Maybe that is the way you should think about the future of animals! Maybe that is a way that is you should think about conserving animals for your childs! Maybe that is the future, just thinking about yourself and not the children of the world!

Good luck all smugglers and thieves!
BBC News - New Zealand calls for whaling compromise
a compromise would be the solution, like the NZ people or Murray McCully said, maybe there should be a regulated number of NZ geckos going out of the country, like the whales, lets say 1000 of every species, a year! I think that is not too much compared to the whales the Norway and Japan is killing every year! Just for the sciences , of course, just for the taking of information and helping for a overpopulation! of course! *vomit*

There are lots of hundreds of geckos that could be given away from breeders every year, but the law (whow, really a great law) is stopping this. Goodluck to the government you are really on the right way to go into chaos.....

Please never ever let talk any of the NZ people about conservation, please dont!

Best wishes from a very disenchanted
Tom

[Lordoftheswarms]

You sound kind of emotional Tom. Do you think that maybe they are trying their best to protect the whales? A compromise is better than complete immediate harvest of all the whales. Perhaps in the mean time, everyone else can work on CITIES and convincing the Japanese government that sustainable harvest is required in the long term. The trade bans of CITIES on animals are a last resort, they should not be what protects animals. Sustainable harvest should be allowed, otherwise we push animals to the brink of extinction then have to protect the rest of the animals from the rest of the people that still want to keep harvesting.

New Zealand has the right idea. You just like the whales, and don't want to see them hurt. I think this might be a case of cultural bias. Let us not condemn Japan for whaling, let us condemn them for whaling UNSUSTAINABLY.

[GeckoTom]

Well, I really was a bit emotional, we had a diskussion here and it it came out that it is always the same, like in Australia, where they always talk about protection and conservation and there are i.e. parrots everywhere, like pidgeons in other cities. They like it more to kill them than to allow some to go out of the country. I thought NZ was different....

All this talking about CITES an the like. Look at South East Asia where they eat everything that has 4 legs and ist a table. There, nobody cares about CITES or the like, as I have seen on the pictures from some friends who travel there a lot and always watch the big markets.

Doesnt harvesting mean that you put out seed and help the process of growing and watering the stuff and that?

Is it harvesting what is done in the open sea, like ruining the deep sea ground with trawl nets?


We have to control and limit the existing fishing rights more, not open them legally to other new markets. When some of them are legalized to hunt it will come to much more "harvesting" because they then can hide it even better that they are hunting a much bigger number!

It is the same like hunting and fishing in our countries, everybody tries to get some more than the regulated and official numbers.

Best wishes
Tom

[LarryLockard]

I wholeheartedly agree with Tom. Somehow on this forum and others, the smuggling of reptiles is made into the antithesis of species surviving. Its like equating the downloading of music to terrorism, its absurd. The real problem is the destruction of a creature's natural habitat, and ultimately its marginalization compared the expansion and growth of the human race, which we are growing unchecked, quite frankly. Each country, my own included, thinks it has some sort of copyright on the animals that are native to it, unwilling to share with anyone else, unless you come and visit. Blah, blah, blah. I think a regulated quota system would ensure not only the survival of these species, but also the decline of smuggling them, what would be the need. They are only smuggled now, because of the rigidness of the NZ government to allow them out, as though they own them, like property.

[casey]

Each country imposing it's own regulated quotas... nope, I don't think that solves anything. Individual countries have EVERY right to decide what native species can or cannot be allowed into trade. How greedy... yes greedy, to pompously think that a country such as New Zealand is selfishly hoarding it's native fauna to itself, and furthermore to almost imply that they should allow certain species into trade? Smuggling will continue unabated regardless of regulated trade sanctions ( I could cite many species as examples, in all taxonomic groups). The thing is we humans are never satisfied with what we have. We always want what we aren't allowed to have (although some seem to think that any life form below us on the evolutionary chain has a price tag on it and can be bartered as part of our human right). If all of New Zealand's native reptiles were available to trade with no strings attached, we would manage to find something else that we weren't allowed to have, to covet and smuggle to our greedy hearts' content. The bottom line is we always want more. It's never enough. Why can't we be happy with the extensive array of wildlife that are readily available to us already? Yes each countries flora and fauna is there property. The whole world is more than welcome to enjoy them as well, it's called plan a vacation!
For the cost of a pair of Naultinus or Hoplodactylus of any species for your personally gratifying collection, you could spend a week in New Zealand I'm sure, and see these animals in the wild. Habitat loss, climate change, and human expansion are great threats to all life on Earth, but overzealous collecting, illegal smuggling... both connected to our foolish notion that as all powerful humans, we have the right to own whatever we please, just because, is also a very very great threat! There's my two cents!!!

[casey]

This topic gets me so heated, so I think I'll continue. It angers me that people think that other countries "owe" us access to their flora and fauna. I love the animals that I'm so privileged to have in my care, but if my Rhacodactylus chahoua or Corucia zebrata zebrata weren't available, I wouldn't get in a tizzy over it. I would simply see these animals in their native habitat, if allowed to do so. I'm fortunate to be able to travel, but for those who aren't, there are many world class zoos out there, exceptional wildlife documentaries for viewing, and countless high quality natural history books to read from layman to academic levels. Our greed, married with the idea that other countries native species belong to whoever is willing to pay, will assuredly ensure that the only way to see many plants and animals will only be... in a zoo, on television, or on the pages of a illustrated nature book. New Zealand's government doesn't owe me, you, or anyone else the right to "own" any of their native species if they choose not to. Nor does any other country for that matter!!!

[GeckoTom]

You just didn´t get the point I think?

In my words on top of the page I did write about a country having all their animals totally protected and is talking about liberating the hunting of whales.

I agree that the animals, especially NZ animals with such a slow reproduction rate, should have the highest protection and also that the nature should be intact but I cannot believe this two face looking to the problem of the whales.

It is like the talking of hunters that hunting is important for the nature or the fishermen talking that sealions and the like eating the fish, so they have fewer in their nets. All talking bull..t!

I do really agree that people always want more and more....some people!!

I do not understand why there is no possibility to share bred anomals with Australian and NZ people.

It is like many problems, there is no solution.

I just watched whales in nature, it was great, hearing their talking for hours and watching them swim around and diving up and down! I really think that in zoo they are really poor animals! No one would think about keeping their geckor or skinks in such bad condition like zoos keep them!

Best wishes
Tom
*who doesnt really want all NZ animals smuggled. I am working for animal protection and conservation myself!