Infant Mortality Rate - L. Williamsi

The_Greg · #1 02-26-2010, 03:20 PM

My williamsi have laid about 12 eggs now, and the first batch of six I was able to get 2 of them that survived hatching, but died later from unknown reasons.

Today my second batch of 6 eggs, the first one also didnt make it out of the egg. What can I do to increase their chance of survival? I have the humidity low, I'm unable to keep it above 45%. I just dupmed about a half gallon of water into the soil to try and help, and I mist daily because of the bromilead.

The ones that did make it out of the egg on the first batch were quarantined in tall deli cups with some pothos. They both were seen eating not long before they passed away, one of them made it a few weeks longer than the other.

Any ideas? Temps in the low 80's, 77-75 at night.

Chum · #2 02-27-2010, 07:54 AM

I think you are right in the assumption that your humidity is too low, and I guess that goes for both the eggs and the hatchlings. Can you cover up some of the ventilation (I assume you have some sort of screen top) so the humidity get a bit higher?

What are you feeding the little guys?

Do you have UVB lighting on the little ones as well?

Are you keeping the little ones in a small delicup from hatching time until they die? Or did they go into a small terrarium?

For myself I can say that I have the following experiences with eggs and hatchlings.
I have had a few eggs not hatching, but I don't think I can blame that on drowning the eggs with misting and I'm not sure temeperature had much to do with it either. In fact I had a clutch of 8 eggs in the same spot, and 4 of those hatched.

I have had 3 youngsters die so far (out of around 14). the three dead ones was due to accidents. Two drowned and the last one got crushed in the door to the terrarium - boy that didn't feel good.

For the rest of them they thrive and grow. I feed them fruitflies, and in the terrariums I have springtails and woodlice which I assume they are feeding on too. I have also been giving them pinhead crickets and curly winged flies when they got a bit bigger. Also I offer mashed fruits - they seem to be especially fond of banana.
I have humidity at around 55% (and 70-80 at night) I mist around once a day - where humidity goes to 100% and then slowly drops back to 55%.
Temps are around 82F in the day and 72-75F at night. I keep the hatchlings/youngsters together in a 12x12x18 (LxWxH) exo terra terrarium with two compact top lamps here in the winter time (with a 26W and a 9W bulb)

The_Greg · #3 02-27-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chum

I think you are right in the assumption that your humidity is too low, and I guess that goes for both the eggs and the hatchlings. Can you cover up some of the ventilation (I assume you have some sort of screen top) so the humidity get a bit higher?

Its a 12x12x18 exo terra and I have a piece of foam poster board covering the screen, and its still pretty dry

What are you feeding the little guys?

fruit flies dusted with calcium and vitamin D

Do you have UVB lighting on the little ones as well?

They are lit by the snake tank that I keep the deli cups next to, which are UVB

Are you keeping the little ones in a small delicup from hatching time until they die? Or did they go into a small terrarium?

Deli cups. I dont have another tank... I'm debating trying to let them grow up with their parents and see how that works. Risky...

See answers in bold

Sgvreptiles · #4 02-27-2010, 01:34 PM

Throw a heat pad under the tank. That will raise humidity up ALOT!. Also, when raising hatchlings put them in 5 gallons. They did the best for me when I did that.

WingedWolfPsion · #5 02-27-2010, 01:44 PM

The high number of eggs not hatching and the weak hatchlings points to something with the parents, or with the incubation, IMO.

What are you feeding the adults? What supplements are you using? Nutrition is absolutely vital for females laying eggs. Lack of some nutrients in the mother's diet can lead to weak hatchlings that fail to hatch or die soon afterward.

What are your incubation temperatures? My understanding is that eggs need to have a 60% humidity level with no moisture directly touching them at all. How long did they take to hatch?

The daytime temps for your adults sound too low. Mine hug all the warmth they can get--I have 90F basking areas, which they make use of (since observing this, I opted not to lower the temp). Daytime air temp is at least 85F, and they appear comfortable with that. I know they don't mind 70F at night.

Chum · #6 02-27-2010, 02:36 PM

Do I understand correctly that you provide light to the delicups by placing them next to a terrarium that has UVB light on it? In that case it sounds to me that the UVB light has to pass through the glass of the terrarium and through the delicup to reach the hatchlings. I have had a quick talk to a guy who lost 6 hatchlings at about one month of age to no apparent reason other than lack of UVB. He was not 100% sure that was the problem, but it sure does sound likely - afterall they are growing fast at that age, so it makes good sense that they need good UVB lighting grow properly.

I agree with WingedWolfPsion that the general condition of the females could have a lot to say as well.

About water splashes on eggs, they are not as delicate as many people said. I have had eggs hatch that was frequently getting small amounts of water spray on them, and I have had droplets running over an egg as well without affecting it.

The_Greg · #7 02-28-2010, 02:58 AM

Parents get repashy and sometimes the egg shells from the old eggs. banana baby food every now and then also.

i cant recall hatching times, but not very long.

WingedWolfPsion · #8 02-28-2010, 01:57 PM

Is that their complete diet? Repashy has sufficient calcium, but if you add other things, then the calcium in their diet would no longer be sufficient. Egg shells provide calcium, but not D3. Are they eating Cal/D3 dusted insects? How far above their basking area is the UVB light? How old is the UVB light? How frequently do you feed them?
What is the temperature in the basking area? (warmest spot in the tank).

The_Greg · #9 02-28-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Is that their complete diet? Repashy has sufficient calcium, but if you add other things, then the calcium in their diet would no longer be sufficient. Egg shells provide calcium, but not D3. Are they eating Cal/D3 dusted insects?

93% repashy, 6% baby food, 3% d3,calcium dusted FF's....

How far above their basking area is the UVB light?

about 3"

How old is the UVB light?

approx. 6 months

How frequently do you feed them?

every other day

What is the temperature in the basking area? (warmest spot in the tank).

unknown. Temp reading is taken from unlit top portion of tank towards door, light is in back.

Answers in bold thanks!

WingedWolfPsion · #10 03-01-2010, 05:11 AM

You can probably eliminate the babyfood--it's not really doing them any additional good, and they'll eat CGD alone once they're used to it (mine did). Apart from that, I don't really see any issues. They could use a bit more dietary variety with the bugs, but I don't see anything that stands out as being wrong enough with the diet to cause these issues.
Pick up an indoor/outdoor thermometer from WalMart. They're $10 max, and they have a long cord with a remote probe. You can place the probe in different parts of the tank and get readings that way. I think it's important at this point to make sure they're getting warm enough during the day.
Temperature and humidity are the last things I can think of that may lead to weak hatchlings. Low temps can cause this, so can high or low humidity. Genetics can as well, but that's a long shot.
I don't think the focus should be on the husbandry of the hatchlings in troubleshooting this (at least not primarily), since you're having so many eggs fail to hatch, and so many babies doing poorly straight out of the egg. If it's not the parents, then it must be the incubation conditions.