[MissMachine]

Hi there! I just introduced myself at the welcome thread....but luck is not on my side .

I bought a terrarium from an acquaintance and it already containd three williamsi females. One dominant and two smaller ones. The dom female already laid eggs once. Her male escaped the enclosure so I bought a new male. The next day I already noticed a spawn . But the thing is... that since then I lost one small female. I don't know how she did it but she managed to climb or crawl into the metal (net)wiring hood that covers the sunlight bulb.. That brought tears to my eyes because it burnt her alive . A week later.. I noticed that the second smaller female was not in the highest region together with the dom female and the male. Later that day I found her in de middle region and obviously she was there because something kept her there. Today I came home in the afternoon and my husband stood in the doorway and had something blackened in the palm of his hands........my second smaller williamsi female..also died the same way.
Male and dom female are staying close together or better in each others presence.. No real agressiveness or anything.

Can it be that those two, the pair, chased the other females to their deaths?
(i'm heartbroken and feel guilty)

I attached a picture of their enclosure.

[John_Woodward]

i think that it is definatley a possibility, but i think the thing that you should adress first and foremost would be finding a new heat/ light source. if it is possible for the animals to climb into their and harm themselves, it is our job as their caretakers to remove any possible problems. Lygodactylus are similiar to phelsuma in alot of different ways, and i know with phelsuma keeping more than a pair together often has bad consequences so i would suggest just sticking with the pair for now and seeing how they do and breed. thanks and keep up updated.

[WingedWolfPsion]

You CAN keep trios or even larger groups of williamsi, but they need separate feeding and basking platforms with visual barriers between them. These little lizards are very highly social, and very interactive. Dominant females WILL suppress subordinate females to their detriment, if there isn't enough separated space, though. It's very important that any williamsi you place in a group be completely healthy and acclimated.

Some of the interactions between the dominant female, male, and subordinate female made me laugh out loud. The subordinates really have tricks up their sleeves for getting what they want behind the dominant's back. But it's not worth the risk if the subordinate isn't completely established and the cage isn't set up right.

I second the opinion that your first step needs to be making sure that light is totally inaccessible to the animals.

There is no need to get more animals at this time--if your pair is doing well, then they will produce eggs.

[MissMachine]

Thanks for your replies. The thing is, i bought this terrarium and the acquaintance already kept a group of 4. Only her male escaped. The dom female already laid eggs in the enclosure. But her terrarium was almost empty exept from some plastic plants. Her three females seemed to do well at that time. The enclosure is (in cm.) 60 wide, 50 cm deep and 1.20 m high. I decorated it with lots of branches and plants. I bought a new male which spawned with the dominant female the day after. But why do I end up with 2 dead females? I didn't change anything on the lights.. I am going to fix the lighting a.s.a.p

Can any of you tell me the time between spawning and laying eggs? The spawn occured on the 20th of april.

Thanx again.

Wendy

[WingedWolfPsion]

It's likely one of those two was already in decline when you got them. It may have been ill from parasites or other causes. It's wise to always quarantine a new animal for a few months before introducing it to an existing group. That way you can be sure both the group and the new animal are healthy and that they won't transmit an illness to one another.

Stress makes problems worse for reptiles--being moved to a new home, and then having a male introduced could have been the straw that broke the camel's back for the female that died. The dominant female's behavior would not have helped.
The other female fell victim to an accident.

[MissMachine]

Thanks again. Lighting is fixed. I'm very curious when I can expect the first eggs. As above, they spawned on the 20th of april.

[WingedWolfPsion]

I assume you mean they mated...spawning is generally external, mating is internal.

2 or 3 weeks after mating in most cases.

[MissMachine]

Ok haha..sorry. I mean mating. I'm also an aquarist and used to say spawn.

[billewicz]

Hello,

I have 3 groups that are 1:3, 1:3, & 1:4. Each group has a dominant female that will occupy the top region with the male. The other three females take up different layers with the most submissive on the floor of the enclosure.

Each level/female 'range' has it's own feeding station for fruits. Each level has a cave with an 'out' through the back, and dividing walls or plants to create an 'egg create effect' within the enclosure.

If the submissive female has a place to run to, they seem to survive the dominant challenges. So, far.

The male will go to each female within their own 'territory' to mate.

Their interactions, chasing fruit flies and hunting crickets is great fun, so enjoy.

All the best,

Michael

[MissMachine]

Thanx for your reply! I ordered a new terrarium, the same size. I am going to do my best with decorating to offer them the individual space they need. Then I can introduce two of three new females.