[daggekko]

Hey, are there any keepers of Lygodactylus that don't use UV lighting? I'm wondering if they can be kept like Phelsuma where bright lights are used but suoplements are used in place if the UV

[hexentanz]

Originally Posted by daggekko

Hey, are there any keepers of Lygodactylus that don't use UV lighting? I'm wondering if they can be kept like Phelsuma where bright lights are used but suoplements are used in place if the UV

It is possible yes, but with their strong prolific nature, you need to watch them very well. People I know who have managed to pull this off successfully offer several different feeders, far more than 2-3 (I know many people who only offer this amount sadly) and do offer their geckos periods of time outdoors.

I am currently doing a study of this myself with some young animals (as I ran out of tanks with UVB lamps), which are said to only thrive with UVB. I started off with 22 shortly over a month ago and have 18 remaining. They are fed daily in small amounts and with a different feeder each day, no feeder is repeated during the week.

So far I can tell you, the young most certainly have a better survival rate when offered UVB.

[Elizabeth Freer]

Signing on for the updates......

[daggekko]

What all do you use for feeders?

Do you keep all of your juvies individually as well? I did see a couple threads about the babies being very territorial.

Have you thought of maybe trying a few different trials-maybe one group being fed 2x daily, another group being fed on extra supplements with the 1x daily feed. Maybe it won't matter but I know that fish that are smaller do much better on 2 or 3 small feedings a day instead of just 1 larger meal.

Normally having that many babies(under your regular uv lighting), what is your loss rate? I mean, do you normally have a gecko or 2 every now and then not survive?

Please keep your study updates coming, I am very interested in seeing what you discover.

[hexentanz]

Originally Posted by daggekko

What all do you use for feeders?

Do you keep all of your juvies individually as well? I did see a couple threads about the babies being very territorial.

Have you thought of maybe trying a few different trials-maybe one group being fed 2x daily, another group being fed on extra supplements with the 1x daily feed. Maybe it won't matter but I know that fish that are smaller do much better on 2 or 3 small feedings a day instead of just 1 larger meal.

Normally having that many babies(under your regular uv lighting), what is your loss rate? I mean, do you normally have a gecko or 2 every now and then not survive?

Please keep your study updates coming, I am very interested in seeing what you discover.

Sorry I did not reply sooner. With the Terraristika this past weekend there was much to do.

I have been keeping Geckos since March 2009. I started off with Phelsuma back then and did not get involved with any Lygodactylus (I started with L.kimhowelli) until October of that same year. Early 2010 I had my first babies from them. Things were a mess as I was still learning a lot so I lost 3 babies within days of them being born. I believe the maximum i kept one of them alive back then was 13 days. After that things picked up and I had dozens of Lygodactylus babies come June. Today I have raised 84 of these successfully and 11 unsuccessfully (3 when starting out, 2 escaped, 3 runts, 2 during this trial, 1 to the parents).

In early 2010 I also got my first Lygodactylus williamsi, I panicked like crazy about keeping their babies because I read so many horror stories of them dying in mass on other breeders. By the time eggs started hatching from them I was quite surprised as I found them very easy to raise, but of course by then I had raised so many L. kimhowelli i had no issues with the williamsi. In fact I have not lost a single L. williamsi to date *knock wood*.

Other Lygodactylus I keep are L. picturatus (25 hatchlings - 5 loses, 3 during study, 2 to their parents) and L. grotei (aka pakenhami).

The hardest thing so far for me is the Lygodactylus grotei. I have had 5 of them hatch and four of them die. Just yesterday a new one hatched and it is very weak. On this one I think i need to go back to the books.

When I first started out I was afraid to keep more than 2 babies together, but over time as they started coming in mass amounts I kept sometimes 5-7 babies together. At one point I kept 10 in a tank and they all survived and are now living in other homes. A few times I have kept more than one Lygodactylus type together. Of course there is some little spats here and there, but if fed properly these spats are usually only over a spot on a bamboo (which is nothing the adults do not do). As they get older I separate them up so as to avoid anyone breeding too early and to avoid any fights because two or suddenly realize they are males. Males always go by themselves, but it is okay to keep a few females together. When I separate them I also place other types by themselves from then on.

For anyone new reading this at some point, do not attempt this until you have several years under your belt keeping and breeding various reptiles, can understand all the behaviors of your animals and can spend a couple of hours a day observing your animals. Just do not spend too long in front of their tank at a time because you alone can piss them off just as much as they could do to each other.

I should also note, this is something I have only been able to do with Lygodactylus. While some friends had luck keeping a few Phelsuma together, the only Phelsuma I managed to keep together more than just the clutch mates was P. klemmeri.


Now getting back on track a little more....

The study was started out with 22 and quickly went down to 17 (since my reply to you 1 more died). In it I am working with L. williamsi, L. kimhowelli and L. picturatus. All babies started out spread across 5 tanks.

Tank 1 - 4 Babies (2 L. williamsi, 1 L. kimhowelli & 1 L. picturatus)
Tank 2 - 5 Babies (2 L. picturatus & 3 L. kimhowelli)
Tank 3 - 3 Babies (3 L. kimhowelli)
Tank 4 - 6 Babies (1 L. picturatus & 5 L. kimhowelli)
Tank 5 - 4 Babies (2 L. picturatus & 2 L. kimhowelli)

2 L. kimhowelli died (Tank 4 & 5)
3 L. picturatus died (Tank 1, 2 & 5)

So now I am left with.....

Tank 1 - 3 Babies (2 L. williamsi & 1 L. kimhowelli)
Tank 2 - 4 Babies (1 L. picturatus & 3 L. kimhowelli)
Tank 3 - 3 Babies (3 L. kimhowelli)
Tank 4 - 5 Babies (1 L. picturatus & 4 L. kimhowelli)
Tank 5 - 2 Babies (1 L. picturatus & 1 L. kimhowelli)


For feeders I use for example - Bean Beetles, Fruitflies, House flies, Wax moths, Woodlice, Springtails, Firebrats, Field Sweepings, Fresh hatched Dubia, etc.

I tried the twice a day feeding thing and honestly they never touched the second meal.

[daggekko]

I tried the twice a day feeding thing and honestly they never touched the second meal.

Are you only feeding insects?

[hexentanz]

Originally Posted by daggekko

Are you only feeding insects?

For the moment, yes. When the young get older, to the point where food is not needed daily I work some Repashy MRP in their diet like the adults.

Since my reply yesterday btw another L. picturatus died.

[daggekko]

Hey, sorry to hear about your losses. Have you ever tried baby food or nectar-like foods for the babies? I have 2 baby Phelsuma laticauda which get baby food a couple to a few times a week. I am not sure how soon they started eating it but I do know they are 24 days old and ate a good amount of their baby food today. Both pairs of my adults(probably all of my Phelsuma) eat on the baby food all day long. Its kindof funny to watch them on the days they get it as they get fat on it. Maybe this could be helpful keeping babies alive?

[hexentanz]

Originally Posted by daggekko

Hey, sorry to hear about your losses. Have you ever tried baby food or nectar-like foods for the babies? I have 2 baby Phelsuma laticauda which get baby food a couple to a few times a week. I am not sure how soon they started eating it but I do know they are 24 days old and ate a good amount of their baby food today. Both pairs of my adults(probably all of my Phelsuma) eat on the baby food all day long. Its kindof funny to watch them on the days they get it as they get fat on it. Maybe this could be helpful keeping babies alive?

I had no major issues keeping them alive before and did not offer baby food then. Nor would I offer it now honestly. Repashy in my honest opinion is a far more better option than baby food if you can get it (not to mention cheaper in the long run). Baby food has lots of sugars in it, preservatives and needs to be pre mixed with vitamins to be semi decent for geckos. Baby food should also not be offered more than once a week or two. But this is a topic for a whole other thread. :P

This evening I am scratching my study and going out and getting a few extra UVB bulbs, as I am starting to feel like a murderer. I think I have well concluded the babies do in fact need UVB as part of their survival.

[Chum]

A very interesting study

I have heard a storie about a keeper caring for L. williamsi hatchlings without UVB who all died on him. I do no tknow if he supplemented the geckos with D3 though. He just said that for odd reasons his 6 or 7 geckos just suddenly died on him about a month old.
However, since Maureen have tried (and I fully trust in your caring skills) I now feel sure that it is correct, lygo's DO need UVB (though no L. williamsi have actually been lost in this study)

What size terrarium have your studies been performed with Maureen?


My experince regarding rearing several hatchlings in one terrarium is similar to Maureens. I have with succes had nearly all my hatchlings housed together 4-6 at a time in a 45x30x30 (HxWxD). Right now I actually have 8 L williamsi housed together with 2 P. nigristriata - and it seems to work just as fine - though it is a bit crowded (glad the plants make it look like a jungle so the hatchlings can get a bit of privacy )


About repashy or similar I offer a type of daygecko pulverized food. It is intended to mix it with water, but I never do. The adults obviously love it, but also the hatchlings eat it. Not all of them though, but I would estimate that around 50% of them are eating it when they are 2 weeks old. At two months they are more or less all eating it.