[telephasic]

Greetings everyone,

I've been planning a a potential large paludarium over the last several months. I'm leaning towards a biotope of the Orinoco, which has led me to the following stocking choices.

Fish:
Either a pair of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi or Apistogramma macmasteri. For those not in the know, these are both dwarf cichlids.
Carnegiella marthae Blackwing hatchetfish.
Some combination of Axelrodia riesei, Paracheirodon axelrodi, and Hyphessobrycon sweglesi, exact stocking of these tetras to be determined depending upon the final gallonage of the water portion
Nannostomus unifasciatus One-Lined Pencilfish
Corydoras Habrosus
Otocinclus vittatus
Panaque maccus - Clown Panaque

Frogs:
Dendrobates leucomelas - a Dart Frog species.

As is usual in these sort of projects, the tank will be full of live plants.

I've done a fair amount of background research on what reptiles are found in the pet trade which are native to the area, and would work well in the setup, and I've narrowed it down to Gonatodes vittatus. But I'd like some opinions first.

Feeding: The main food source will be dusted fruit flies, which will be added to the tank for the frogs. Secondary food sources will include field sweepings during the warm months. In addition, I plan to introduce into the tank microfauna like springtails and isopods, which should form self-sustaining colonies in the leaf litter. I do not want to introduce any crickets to the tank, as they will drown, and are too large to be quickly dispatched by the fish, meaning they'll foul the water. Could this species (or a closely related one) survive on the above diet?

Mixing: I know I've heard of people mixing this genus with PDF before on Dendroboard. I don't know what experiences gecko-keepers have had however.

Thermal Gradient/UV: Any special needs here? Obviously I was planning on heating the tank to around 80 degrees Fahrenheit, and having fairly powerful lights (T5-HO) most likely for plant growth.

Water: This is the big question. I am planning on taking some precautions against drowning already, as PDFs can't swim themselves. But my understanding with them is as long as you avoid leaving the sharp corners of your tank open, and provide plenty of slopes, bogwood, and rocks for them to climb out on, they do A-OK. Also, Gonatodes and related taxa seem to disperse over water all the time, which suggests they either can handle themselves a bit in water, or have the sense not to jump into it. Am I right to think I'll be fine here?

Anyway, any thoughts much appreciated.

[JMorash]

Just a few suggestions. I've never kept Gonatodes sp. but I am quite a fish and dart frog enthusiast have been keeping fish for 10 years + in a big way, and dart frogs I have dabbling in for some time now. I'm particularly well versed in SA fish, especially earth eating species (microgeophagus, geophagus, satanoperca, retrocichla, gymnogeophagus, crenicichla, etc.)

The first problems you are going to run into is with your mixture of cichlids. If you are going with apistos, especially one like macmasteri I would suggest just sticking with the single species of cichlids. Once they start breeding, which macmasteri most definitely will if there is adequate conditions, a passive dwarf cichlid like a ram might get harassed. Rams, especially tank bred ones will stress quick and die. If you want to mix dwarf cichlids try a dwarf pike species or dwarf acara species. The apistos and crenicichla don't bother eachother because they are not similar body shapes, and the dwarf acaras and just really tough. I had a Biotope with Macmasteri and L.curviceps for a while with no problems.

Beyond that your fish stocking seems fine. Just make sure you have a lot of space. You seem to want a lot of fish, and if you are planning on doing a proper biotope, one or two of each tetra wont get the desired effect, you should look at group of a 10-20 of a single species, and at least 6-8 corydoras. That's when they start acting like they should. Also watch Nannostomus around fish with long fins, they will nip at them and terrorize your other fish.

I would never suggest mixture different dart frog species. I have problems mixing 3 similar variants of auratus in a 120 gallon set up. I have seen it work, and I have experienced it fail. One species becomes dominant and their ends up being a lot of aggression towards other species, especially food aggression. My blue auratus starved out my campana, and had my microspots hiding forever. Especially a species like leucomelas that tend to be shy and passive, could easily get picked on.

And to answer your question regarding drowning. Dendrobates can swim, just not very well. However since most of the fish you plan on keeping some from slow moving water with dense vegetation, you can plant a lot of stuff for your frogs and geckos to climb up on in need be. Also, I assuming like most small day geckos, Gonatodes probably have slightly hydrophobic skin, allowing them to float momentarily till they can scurry to a close by floating plant, rock or log.

To have a lot of success this is what I would do. Build a river bank using different sizes of round, but rough rock, something inert (my personal choice is tumbled pieces of granite that come out of a river). They try to culture moss on it, sphagnum cultures quite well in semi aquatic conditions, and so does java moss. Then line parts of the bank with semi aquatic plants the frogs and lizards can climb. Add floating plants like salvinia or water lettuce that the frogs or lizards can climb on too if they fall in. Unfortunately these floating plants can act as a safe refuge, or a trap as some small reptiles can fall under them and get trapped or get tangled in their roots, but ultimately I have had more success with them, and only ever one fatality associated with them. Then finally top the mid water off with some larger logs that breach the surface. The combination will give you the best safety for geckos and frogs who've fallen overboard, and make your fish feel comfortable.

For heating I would suggest using an external filtration so you can have external heating then you don't ruin the look of your paludarium and don't run the risk of burning your frogs or geckos if they fall on the heater. Also the lighting you want to use is fine, but they heat up a lot, so just watch your ambient temperatures. The heated water will help heat the air, and so will the light, you could quickly over heat your tank.

My last few tips is stay away from using concrete. I know a lot of people like using it to build life like rock structures, and caves and such, but it'll shoot you PH too high for most of the fish you want, and too high for your frogs. Also make sure you have proper water agitation or you will be growing some gross algae and moulds. Fans, misting systems, and R/O filtration will all make your set up more successful.

Good luck,

JMorash