[curiousme]

Unfortunately our new juvie L. williamsi (~6months old, captive-born) has died, after he was in our care for only 3wks-1dy. We are sad to be without the little treasure, and are unsure what we could have done differently to have prevented this. It seemed to happen so fast.

First, the backstory:
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Housing was a custom 24 inch tall hexagonal tank that was 12 inches corner to opp corner footprint. There are three cork hides, fake vine, and loads of plants (4 species). UVB (10.0) was provided and temps were maintained 75ish F (cool end/ bottom) and 90ish F (warm end/ very top), with about half of the tank staying 80F-88F. Heat was provided with a 60watt ceramic heat emitter w/ T-stat. The tank was lightly misted twice a day. We have been feeding Fruit Flies (flightless D. melanogaster) dusted with vitamin/calcium, as well as Repashy's CGD. Everything had seemed fine since we got him. He was bold, active, eating readily, gaining weight, and his color had been very vibrant.
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Last Thursday (Dec.15) I replenished his CGD, and added some FFs; when I noticed he was getting awfully plump. A little too fat, so I decided to cut back on his feedings. I didn't feed him the next 2 days, and on Sunday (3rd day without food) removed the CGD that he'd been eating on. I reasoned that this was the likely culprit for the weight gain, as I was pretty much leaving it available at all times, and that I should start removing it after a day or two and not offering it again for a few days. I didn't notice anything abnormal during these 3 days. My wife and I observe the tank often, and mist regularly.
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Monday (Dec19) I caught him sitting in a strange position like he was avoiding touching the corkbark with his belly. An hour later I checked in on him again, and he was still in this position. Growing worried I watched the tank closely, and when he began moving looked underneath to find a huge white lump at/on his vent. It looked like feces stuck to him, but it was getting late, so I sprayed the tank extra (to potentially help loosen it up) and resigned myself to do something about it the next day. I researched hemipenal prolapses, but couldn't find any examples of people having that problem with the smaller geckos, so I hoped it was just stuck feces.
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Tuesday (Dec20) He was much less active, and easily allowed me to coax him out of the tank. He didn't try to bolt, preferring to move more slowly and deliberate and overall seemed a bit clumsier. He easily allowed me to gently hold him upside-down, and clean the area with Q-tips and warm water. After softening and clearing away the white crustiness, I wasn't sure what I saw. It didn't continue to wipe away, so it wasn't feces; but, it wasn't the 'right' color for a prolapse. That is to say: it wasn't pink, and fleshy, but a darker brownish-grey. I continued inspecting it as I cleaned until I decided it MUST have been the hemipenes, or possibly just one hemipenis. It had been encrusted in the feces, apparently.
At this point, I began worrying about his docile behavior, i.e. he was lying on his back with me no longer holding him, "playing dead"; so I finished up the cleaning, added a couple of drops of liquid KY, and returned him to his enclosure until I could figure out what to do next.
He had a lot of "agility issues" when putting him back, and even fell off the edge of the vine, and dropped about 3inches. He definitely didn't act right. After returning to his tank, he stayed pretty near where he dropped on the corkbark lowest in the tank, where he doesn't normally hang out. He was even hanging out in the shade under a leaf, which is odd considering the time of day, and that he should have wanted to get somewhere warmer than where he was after being out for a while.
There he stayed for the next few hours and at some point after lights out he was lying on the leaf litter. I knew then it was to late, as they practically never go to the substrate from my reading, and he'd been no exception.
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This morning (Wed, Dec20) he was still there when we got up, not breathing, eyes glassy.
We feel terrible.
What happened?
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I'm worried I fed him too much, and he was either constipated and defecating strained him to push out his hemipenes; or wasn't constipated, but his heaviness was causing similar strain.
However, I did later recall that I once saw him defecate and the hemipenes did come out briefly, but were gone in a flash.
Is that normal?
If so, then the question becomes more about why they failed to retract this time and remained out until they became encrusted.
I later learned that the darker colored hempenes are a sign that they've been out too long, and the tissue has begun to die (necrotic), and would've needed amputation.
Thoughts?
Suggestions?
Comments?

[hexentanz]

I am very sorry for your loss.

Based on the age of the gecko I am leaning more toward this being a rectal prolapse. Most importantly was he with a female and what kind of substrate are you using in the tank?

Were you offering anything other than fruitflies and Repashy?

It is normal when feeding CGD or baby food for the gecko to look very plump after it eats by the way. Mine look like they have little basketballs in their bellies afterwards.

[cricket4u]

A rectal prolapse needs vet intervention. It's almost guaranteed to become infected and in some cases it needs to be amputated. He could have had parasites, infection, ect.
Without a necropsy you will never know. Sorry for your loss

[curiousme]

Originally Posted by hexentanz

I am very sorry for your loss.

Based on the age of the gecko I am leaning more toward this being a rectal prolapse. Most importantly was he with a female and what kind of substrate are you using in the tank?

Were you offering anything other than fruitflies and Repashy?

It is normal when feeding CGD or baby food for the gecko to look very plump after it eats by the way. Mine look like they have little basketballs in their bellies afterwards.

Thank you for the responses.

To answer your questions:
1. No, he had the tank all to himself
2. Substrate was a home made, bio-active, mix containing coco fiber/ coco coir, and a natural well draining soil from a location of undisturbed wilderness. There may also have been a handful of peatmoss in there. Then there was a bed of magnolia leaves over that.
3. Nothing fed but FF & CGD. Unless he was eating springtails, or wild/house FF that show up here and there around the house. (They always seem to get in tanks)

[hexentanz]

Originally Posted by curiousme

Thank you for the responses.

To answer your questions:
1. No, he had the tank all to himself
2. Substrate was a home made, bio-active, mix containing coco fiber/ coco coir, and a natural well draining soil from a location of undisturbed wilderness. There may also have been a handful of peatmoss in there. Then there was a bed of magnolia leaves over that.
3. Nothing fed but FF & CGD. Unless he was eating springtails, or wild/house FF that show up here and there around the house. (They always seem to get in tanks)

I know sometimes the coco fiber and coir have some long loose strands mixed in there or small chips, do you see any of those in the tank? Usually they are pretty good at spitting them out, but i like to remove as much as possible just to be safe.

It may be a good idea to contact the place you got him from to ask what they were using a substrate and feeder insects if you are unsure, because it is probable he ingested whatever it was that did this while with them.

Since he was by himself the chances he had a hemipenis prolapse are pretty slim, so I would still lean towards rectal prolapse.

As the other poster mentioned prolapses always should be seen by a vet even more so if they do not resolve on their own within a day.

If you do get another animal and you plan to breed them at some point they will need a bit more varied diet, fruitflies do not really offer much nutrition. Woodlice, Springtails, House Flies, Field sweepings, Crickets, Small roaches, Firebrats, Bean Beetles, Pea Aphids are some examples of feeders for L. williamsi.