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  1. #1
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    Default Bad luck with Tarentola chazaliae


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    Hi guys
    I just wanted to share with you the bad luck streak that I had with Tarentola chazaliae and (possibly) a not so honest seller.

    At the beginning of February, I've bought 1.3 group of Tarentola chazaliae from a private seller in Czech Republic. The animals looked great, fed and hunted actively. I've kept two females and passed a pair to my colleague, as we agreed earlier. Two weeks later, I've found one of the females dead after I came back from work. I was shocked, because she looked as though she's been only sleeping and I've seen her walk around before I left for work. I was quite bummed about that, because I thought that it might've been something I did, that lead to the death.

    Two weeks later, my friend told me that his female just died. That was just weird. We both kept the animals in best possible condition and closely monitor them. What is even weirder is the fact, that we both had other specimens of this species, that are still fine. I started to worry about my other female, but she remained active and showed only minor infection with nematodes - nothing that could cause sudden death.

    Yesterday I watched the last female of the bunch die.

    She clearly tried to push out the eggs she had. That all three of them had, as me and my friend recalled. I clearly could see her struggle and how she contracted her muscles to push the eggs out.
    I immediately grabbed the phone and started to call every vet in the city. The only one that was still open, and would be able to help, was going to close in 30 minutes and they still had many patients, they told me that there is no way they could manage to help me, and asked me to come back first thing in the morning. It turned out, that even if they could see me, it wouldn't change a thing as the poor thing died in minutes (I even ran to the pharmacy for parrafin and water soluble calcium).

    I'm devastated, however I'm pretty sure that I did nothing wrong. The seller says that I'm a fraud and it's my fault because my conditions were usuited for the animals - without specifying what's wrong, other than the fact that he doesn't like the plastic tub that they were kept in (my friend is keeping his in glass terrarium, mine have screen top, so this argument is invalid). I would like to point again that I had one female before I got the others and she's still her grumpy self. I kept the geckos in plastic tub (56x40cm / 22x16in) with fine sand as substrate. On hot end it retained temperature of 32*C (90F), 15% humidity and there were two hides there (dry and humid). On the cold end the temperatures were around 22-25*C with one hide and around 80% humidity (I've sprayed this end each evening). They always had access to the bowl with fresh water. Fed once every two days with roaches dusted with Calcium + d3 and vitamins (rotated every feeding).

    Who do you think is right? The seller saying that me and my friend didn't provide adequate environment, or we, saying that this guy sold us overbred and exhausted females (male from him, and geckos we had earlier are still fine).
    Last edited by Dieball; 03-13-2018 at 06:04 AM.

  2. #2
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    I've never kept Tarentola chazaliae. I have other geckos.

    I wonder whether all your females died because of blood calcium shortages.

    In 2015 both my adult female Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus females passed away. Their main symptom was seizures. I took the 2nd one to the vet. The vet felt her jaws. He said: "If her jaws are firm, she has sufficient calcium." At roughly 10 grams she was too small for a blood calcium draw. The vet also worked out a dosage of Repashy's Rescue Cal + which contains Calcium Lactate Gluconate and Magnesium Lactate, but it was too late.

    In between seizures this 2nd female laid 2 more eggs. Not one of her 4 well-formed eggs was fertile. In addition she literally "came back to life" for 41 more hours after intermittent CPR and M-t-M immediately following her death.

    These breeding females needed much more calcium than I had been providing. It turns out that decent bone density does NOT equal adequate blood calcium levels. Since the youngsters occasionally lay infertile eggs, powdered supplements just about 3x per week work well.

    In September 2015 I got a tip from a EU breeder: "Most important: Offer breeding females sepia skulls (cuttlebone) in small crumbs, not just powder! They will eat it pure!" (Just don't shave the actual bone.)

    : This schedule has worked very well for these geckos. In September 2015 I also changed the cricket diet from Alber's All Purpose Poultry Feed to Zoo Med's Natural ADULT Bearded Dragon Food. I've never looked back.

    Monday ~ Crickets lightly dusted with Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3
    Wednesday ~ Crickets lightly dusted with pure (plain) precipitated calcium carbonate
    Friday ~ Crickets lightly dusted with Zoo Med's ReptiVite multivitamins without D3

    + a small dish of shaved cuttlebone in the breeding adult females' cages
    My 2 new females are proud moms of 21 hatchlings since 14 February 2017! I'm stoked too!
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 03-17-2018 at 09:54 AM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

  3. #3
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    It might've been the reason if the seller didn't supplement them while breeding them. I supplemented them, as all my animals, with calcium in every feeding (my vitamin mix also contains calcium).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieball View Post
    It might've been the reason if the seller didn't supplement them while breeding them. I supplemented them, as all my animals, with calcium in every feeding (my vitamin mix also contains calcium).
    Which brand calcium with D3 and multivitamin do you use? All multivitamins are different.
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 03-16-2018 at 10:46 AM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

  5. #5
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    Calcium with D3 is by Exo Terra, and multivitamin is by Dendrocare (Altough I plan to try Reptivite in near future). I also use Repashi Vitamin A Plus twice a month (lightly dusted).

    I also gut-load my insects with carrots, apples and dry food mix made by my insect supplier.
    Last edited by Dieball; 03-16-2018 at 07:19 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieball View Post
    Calcium with D3 is by Exo Terra, and multivitamin is by Dendrocare (Altough I plan to try Reptivite in near future). I also use Repashi Vitamin A Plus twice a month (lightly dusted).

    I also gut-load my insects with carrots, apples and dry food mix made by my insect supplier.
    Thanks.

    I'm not familiar with Dendrocare.

    Can you buy VetArk's Nutrobal in your country? It's hugely filled with precipitated calcium carbonate!
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 03-16-2018 at 07:36 AM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

  7. #7
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    Exo Terra's Calcium with vitamin D3---phosphorus-free...... Contains dextrose (sugar) & oyster shell flour.

    Click: Exo Terra : Calcium + D3 / Calcium + D3 Powder Supplement

    North America
    INGREDIENTS:
    Calcium carbonate, oyster shell flour, dextrose, Vitamin D3 supplement.

    GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
    • Moisture (max) 12.0%
    • Calcium (min) 35.0%
    • Calcium (max) 37.0%
    • Vitamin D3 14,740 IU/lb (XXX IU/kg)

    EU
    INGREDIENTS:
    Calcium carbonate (35%), ground oyster shells, salt.
    Contains EU permitted additives.

    EU TYPICAL ANALYSIS:
    • Calcium 35%
    • Vitamin D3 65 mg/kg
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

  8. #8
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    VetArk's products are not available in Poland, but I can always order them from abroad if you really recommend them I don't skimp on anything for my animals welfare.
    Likes Elizabeth Freer liked this post

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieball View Post
    VetArk's products are not available in Poland, but I can always order them from abroad if you really recommend them I don't skimp on anything for my animals welfare.
    I think the mixture Peter uses is very good! I've asked whether all the vitamin A contained is beta carotene. Nobody's sharing.

    Since Nutrobal may only contain vitamin A in the form of beta carotene and may not contain vitamin A acetate (retinol), continue using Repashy's Calcium Plus at a couple feedings per month. Lizards only need a wee bit of retinol in order to metabolize beta carotene.

    Adding high calcium, low phosphorus, leafy greens to the feeder's diet is good too: collard, mustard, and turnip greens as well as pesticide-free dandelion flowers and greens.
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 03-16-2018 at 07:58 AM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

  10. #10
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    Click these links for more information:

    1) https://www.scribd.com/document/2538...tola-chazaliae
    • Breeding
      "Breeding females should be between 20-25 grams and are very prone to calcium deficiency when breeding. So conditioning is essential especially for the females and added calcium + D3 should be added to the food prior and after egg laying."

    2) Gary Hamann -- Ridge and Valley Reptiles (Wisconsin USA)
    Contact here
    • Geckonia (Tarentola) chazaliae -- Helmeted Gecko
      "The helmeted gecko is the favorite terrestrial species that I currently keep. The distinctive row of enlarged scales at the base of the skull give this gecko its unique look and common name. Alert, active, and fearless, these small geckos pace back and forth along the front of their tanks hoping for a handout when I enter the room. Many nocturnal terrestrial species are shy and rarely seen- this is not the case with these active little geckos. They will aggressively take food items from tongs or my fingers. Once relatively common in the hobby, this species has become increasingly difficult to find. I have had good success breeding this species, hatching out 20+ babies in 2009 / 2010. Update... after working with this group for 6+ years, I decided to take on some new challenges with other species. These remain one of my all time favorites!"

    3) Geckos Unlimited thread: tarentola chazaliae

    4) Three to Get Ready: Tarentola - Gecko Time - Gecko Time

    5) Helmeted Gecko Care Sheet
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside a vivarium <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

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