Gout - information, symptoms and prevention (please contribute)

Crestie Chris · #1 01-04-2012, 10:59 AM

Afternoon,

Some of you may or may not know, but my procrastination usually leads to researching... Quite often to areas that are not very well discussed or widely understood. My most recent quest for knowledge has brought me to 'Gout'. I've been looking at a few articles, discussions, etc., and it has become apparent that not may keepers seem to know about it, or contemplate it until it's too late.

So, I have started this thread to help bring some attention to the subject. Unfortunately I only have a basic understanding of gout myself so I'd really appreciate if anyone who clued up on it could post up an explanation of the types of Gout reptiles are effected by, symptoms, and most importantly prevention!

I look forward to hearing your replies,

Thanks,

Chris

**Riverside Reptiles** · #2 01-04-2012, 01:51 PM

We've actually had quite a lengthy discussion about gout in this thread recently:
Feeder Roaches: Care and Breeding

Our search feature here is great for finding information like this.

IMO the simple answer is that gout in geckos seems to come as an issue of feeding prey items a high protein diet such as dog or cat food. But read the thread. Maurice has some pretty in depth information about this subject.

Crestie Chris · #3 01-04-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverside Reptiles

We've actually had quite a lengthy discussion about gout in this thread recently:
Feeder Roaches: Care and Breeding

Our search feature here is great for finding information like this.

IMO the simple answer is that gout in geckos seems to come as an issue of feeding prey items a high protein diet such as dog or cat food. But read the thread. Maurice has some pretty in depth information about this subject.

How did I miss that! Kicking myself now, I'll have a good read through it. Thanks for your help

cricket4u · #4 01-04-2012, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crestie Chris

Afternoon,

Some of you may or may not know, but my procrastination usually leads to researching... Quite often to areas that are not very well discussed or widely understood. My most recent quest for knowledge has brought me to 'Gout'. I've been looking at a few articles, discussions, etc., and it has become apparent that not may keepers seem to know about it, or contemplate it until it's too late.

So, I have started this thread to help bring some attention to the subject. Unfortunately I only have a basic understanding of gout myself so I'd really appreciate if anyone who clued up on it could post up an explanation of the types of Gout reptiles are effected by, symptoms, and most importantly prevention!

I look forward to hearing your replies,

Thanks,

Chris

Great topic!

Sadly gout has been misdiagnosed by veterinarians with limited reptile knowledge. A few vets have diagnosed it as MBD and send the owner home with calcium supplements, dehydration is never evaluated. 2 weeks later the reptile goes into kidney failure and dies.

Secondary gout is usually seen after kidney disease has set in. Most owners fail to recongnize their reptiles are dehydrated and combined with high protein diets leads to disaster. Their are other causes as well. For example a vet injecting a reptile with medications without proper hydration. People need to be more proactive when taking their reptiles to the vet.

Don't be afraid to test their knowledge.
Write things down and ask as many questions as possible.

Some sad photos and interesting read:
iHerp Answers: Leo with horrible joint growths
(Warning) Necropsy Photos - Gout (Pseudogout) - Chameleon Forums
Reptiles: gecko, uric acid crystals, leopard gecko
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=59571
http://www.flickr.com/photos/olathea...al/4898563232/

**Riverside Reptiles** · #5 01-04-2012, 09:47 PM

People not only need to be more proactive about taking their animals to the vet, they need to be more proactive about doing research AFTER they see the vet. I've worked in exotic animal medicine a good portion of my adult life and I can tell you from many years of experience and working with many different exotic animal veterinarians that herp medicine is still very much in its infancy and just because someone is a vet or claims to be a reptile "specialist" doesn't mean that they know what they're doing all the time (or even a majority of the time). Most vets, even "reptile" vets see a very limited amount of species on a regular basis and often tend to treat them all the same. So don't just take your vets advice based on the fact that they're a vet. Often times, it's the serious hobbiests who have the most cutting edge information (and actual hands on experience).

cricket4u · #6 01-04-2012, 11:36 PM

Quick story. I had an internet friend who owned a savannah monitor and which I was helping with husbandry. He started losing weight and by looking at all the pictures I knew he had an infection and was dehydrated. I warned him to do his research and make sure this vet had at least some experience with monitors. I told him 100 times he is dehydrated. He takes the monitor to the vet, comes home and shows me a video of the visit. I was so angry I wanted to choke the vet through the computer.

1. A experienced vet knows not to administer antibiotics without fluids to a dehydrated reptile.
2. A experienced vet knows injections should always be given in the front two-thirds of the reptile because of the renal-portal system.

He injected a nephrotoxic antibiotic which is only given as a last resort, IN THE HIND LEGS and without any fluid support.

Within a year the monitor began showing signs of renal failure, severe dehydration and died.

Crestie Chris · #7 01-06-2012, 09:45 AM

Thanks for all the info and personal experiences! I really appreciate it

It's sad to hear about the monitor, hopefully threads like this can help arm people with knowledge or the mindset to research into vets decisions... Hopefully helping to prevent future avoidable cases.

oli · #8 01-06-2012, 12:42 PM

can you explain a little about the renal portal system cricket4u?

cricket4u · #9 01-06-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oli

can you explain a little about the renal portal system cricket4u?

I am no fan of typing pages, so here it goes plus some

http://herptiles.consulnetjdm.dyndns...nalportal.html
Reptiles
342notes9
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7....cgi%3fpid=158

cricket4u · #10 01-09-2012, 06:59 PM

I wanted to add that one of the biggest problems in reptiles is dehydration which is a huge contributing factor to gout. So one of the ways to help with this problem is adding insects with higher moisture content which are silkworms and hornworms. This will give you a bit of information for those who are not familiar with them.

Silkworms are a high source of Calcium, Protein, Iron, Magnesium, Sodium, and Vitamins B1, B2, and B3.
Some Hornworm nutrition info provided in link below.
http://www.greatlakeshornworm.com
http://www.mulberryfarms.com/Hornworms-Goliaths-c11/

Always use the same rule of thumb regarding size when feeding for all insects!!

http://www.reptilechannel.com/lizard...our-herps.aspx

Elizabeth if you wish to add this to your wonderful caresheet please do.