[Chris3004]

Hi Timm,

I can only evaluate what I see on the pictures. Having said that, I don't regard your setup as appropriate for this species, mainly due to inappropriate (or missing) structure and height. Did you remove the interior for the purpose of this shooting?

You probably have reasons for housing it like you do and it'll surely work for quarantine, if it normaly includes some hiding places, but this shouldn't be the long-term tank in my opinion.

Cheers
Chris

[Chondrodactylus]

Originally Posted by crestedtimm

Well...,

I do have these geckos in tubs. I will admit that a little poo in a picture of a nice gecko is disappointing, but I can say that any poo in the picture with any of my geckos are the producers of said poo. Like I would go mixing Rugosus with anything else...

I apologize for my dirty cages,

Timm

No need to apologize for dirty cages that happens and i bet everyone's cages who commented are not 100% i know mine are not in that regard.

I was just concerned who you set them up.
Naturally these geckos live under bark of tree's in tight rock cracks ect.
I just feel one cardtube is not really great fro them to feels secure ect.

Each to his own of course.

[canthoo]

Originally Posted by Chondrodactylus

No need to apologize for dirty cages that happens and i bet everyone's cages who commented are not 100% i know mine are not in that regard.

I was just concerned who you set them up.
Naturally these geckos live under bark of tree's in tight rock cracks ect.
I just feel one cardtube is not really great fro them to feels secure ect.

Each to his own of course.

I dont say that you need 100% clean cages i have them myself sometimes, but i saw some pictures of his cages in various threads and all showing quite dirty sand or cage walls (more than most other i saw). So it comes to my mind that this the normal way of keeping reptiles for him. I thought that giving him a hint was a good idea.
There is absolutely no reason for keeping geckos in their own poo despite of laziness. Nobody wants to hear it but its the truth.

[crestedtimm]

I really appreciate all the attention this thread is getting. I will be sure to post pics of these guys in their permanent enclosures when I get them established.

Thanks for the advice on hide preference, I will be sure to integrate some suitable fixtures into my enclosures.

Thanks for the criticism as well, I take it humbly.

Best Regards

[Geitje]

Originally Posted by canthoo

i saw some pictures of cages in various threads and all showing quite dirty sand or cage walls (more than most other i saw). So it comes to my mind that this the normal way of keeping reptiles. I thought that giving a hint was a good idea.
There is absolutely no reason for keeping geckos in their own poo despite of laziness. Nobody wants to hear it but its the truth.

I’m curious how many readers of this thread have found any arboreal geckos in nature. I’ll even allow for the waif Hemidactylus turcicus here in the southern part of the USA. I’m sure that anyone who has found an arboreal gecko in its natural retreat has noted the presence of feces all over the vertical surface of that area. This is particularly true for arid adapted species that do not enjoy the semi-rinsing daily rains that occur in the tropics and thereby having their surfaces (plants, tree trunks, walls of manmade structures, etc.) cleaned to some degree. Species like Pachydactylus rugosus, some Phelsuma, house geckos of every denomination, virtually every rock dwelling gecko I’ve ever found (Ptyodactylus, Rhoptropus and numerous other genera) all defecate on the rock surfaces they patrol day and night. In fact, I’ve seen surfaces so littered with feces that I have adapted my hunting to looking for spots along rock outcroppings that are littered with feces – it works!!! Nobody is out there with Windex and baby-wipes ensuring these little sweeties don’t get their toes dirty. There are arachnids, snakes, birds, mammals, and other larger lizards out there in the habitat perched and ready to eat our beloved geckos in a split second. A fecal pellet, dried by the sun, or by associated dry conditions of a terrarium, are the LEAST of their worries!

Now, I’m not suggesting hobbyists let their terrariums go to poo, however, let’s exercise some practical sense here as well. I’ve kept geckos for exactly 30 years, currently have more than 600 terrariums – and nearly all have always had at least one fecal pellet in them at any given time. Also, I have never lost a single gecko to “over-exposure to feces”, I’m sure with these numbers it “should” have happened by now.

Jon

[Matt K]

I've just looked at the photos, love the gecko, and did not see a "poo issue" at all....not sure what all the fuss is about. I have seen alot more (ALOT more) where the "native" geckos live, and where Lygodactylus and such hang out in Africa, and even the place in my backyard where a Sceloporus sp. has been for 3 years now. Someone posted a pic online of this evidence somewhere, but I can't remember it.

CrestedTimm- nice geckos! Wish I knew where to get some of those, and had the cash on hand when I found them offered....

[canthoo]

Originally Posted by Geitje

I’m curious how many readers of this thread have found any arboreal geckos in nature. I’ll even allow for the waif Hemidactylus turcicus here in the southern part of the USA. I’m sure that anyone who has found an arboreal gecko in its natural retreat has noted the presence of feces all over the vertical surface of that area. This is particularly true for arid adapted species that do not enjoy the semi-rinsing daily rains that occur in the tropics and thereby having their surfaces (plants, tree trunks, walls of manmade structures, etc.) cleaned to some degree. Species like Pachydactylus rugosus, some Phelsuma, house geckos of every denomination, virtually every rock dwelling gecko I’ve ever found (Ptyodactylus, Rhoptropus and numerous other genera) all defecate on the rock surfaces they patrol day and night. In fact, I’ve seen surfaces so littered with feces that I have adapted my hunting to looking for spots along rock outcroppings that are littered with feces – it works!!! Nobody is out there with Windex and baby-wipes ensuring these little sweeties don’t get their toes dirty. There are arachnids, snakes, birds, mammals, and other larger lizards out there in the habitat perched and ready to eat our beloved geckos in a split second. A fecal pellet, dried by the sun, or by associated dry conditions of a terrarium, are the LEAST of their worries!

Now, I’m not suggesting hobbyists let their terrariums go to poo, however, let’s exercise some practical sense here as well. I’ve kept geckos for exactly 30 years, currently have more than 600 terrariums – and nearly all have always had at least one fecal pellet in them at any given time. Also, I have never lost a single gecko to “over-exposure to feces”, I’m sure with these numbers it “should” have happened by now.

Jon

Sorry but what you are writing has nothing to do with a small dirty terrarium. Might be possible that in nature geckos have a lot of feces around them. But you cant compare things in nature to keeping reptiles in terrariums.
Nobody cleans up their mess in nature. Nobody is giving them supplements in nature. Nobody is seperating females from males in nature. Nobody is looking for their eggs to incubate in nature. Nobody is seperating different species in nature.
And still we all do these things when we keep them a home! And this is because a terrarium is not nature. It provides only very limited space and very limited nutrional food.
I am very happy for you that you can keep so many terrariums for so long but what you are writing gives someone who is new to the hobby and reading these forums a completely wrong image.
"I dont have to clean, in nature there is way more poo!"
Feces are always a spot for diseases to develop and even more in very small terrariums.

[Justin]

That's not what Jon was suggesting. All that he meant (IMO) was that small amounts of poo are not detrimental to the health of the gecko. If you want to take out the poo everytime your gecko defecates than that is your prerogative but it doesn't help the gecko. Purely aesthetics.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by canthoo

Sorry but what you are writing has nothing to do with a small dirty terrarium. Might be possible that in nature geckos have a lot of feces around them. But you cant compare things in nature to keeping reptiles in terrariums.
Nobody cleans up their mess in nature. Nobody is giving them supplements in nature. Nobody is seperating females from males in nature. Nobody is looking for their eggs to incubate in nature. Nobody is seperating different species in nature.
And still we all do these things when we keep them a home! And this is because a terrarium is not nature. It provides only very limited space and very limited nutrional food.
I am very happy for you that you can keep so many terrariums for so long but what you are writing gives someone who is new to the hobby and reading these forums a completely wrong image.
"I dont have to clean, in nature there is way more poo!"
Feces are always a spot for diseases to develop and even more in very small terrariums.

Actually what he said has everything to do with it. While the animals are not in nature, we strive to replicate thier natural environmental conditions as much as is practical. For more sensitive animals, cleaning the cage every day or two may stress them out more than help them, so it may be normal and well for the animal to have a week or two or four of poo in the cage. Not all lizards and geckos were made to be handled every day....

He also said "Now, I’m not suggesting hobbyists let their terrariums go to poo, however, let’s exercise some practical sense here as well."

And I will reitrate the quote to make it easier to read:
"Now, I’m not suggesting hobbyists let their terrariums go to poo, however, let’s exercise some practical sense here as well."

So, (newbie or otherwise who might get the "wrong idea"): Understand the nature of your animal and use as much sense as you can apply, and read all that you can on the topic first.

[danscantle]

Originally Posted by canthoo

But you cant compare things in nature to keeping reptiles in terrariums."
Feces are always a spot for diseases to develop and even more in very small terrariums.

I don't know how you begin to make such a ridiculous opening statement. Like Jon, I've observed several species in the field and in captivity. Behaviors and natural history in either setting are frequently indistinguishable.

Regarding your statement linking feces and diseases. Unless you're one to believe in spontaneous generation of advanced parasitic or pathogenic life forms, nothing is going to happen. Some freak worm is not going to appear suddenly. Quarantine is obviously an important concept, but that is not what we are discussing here.

Have you considered that feces may be an important signal for geckos? Mediating a number of behavioral or hormonal pathways? What about passing on important, symbiotic intestinal flora to young animals?

There's certainly a common sense factor here. Jon is not suggesting to throw out your favorite substrate for dried Pachydactylus poo. But maybe you should consider what the natural substrate really is...