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    Default New and Need HELP!!!!


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    Hello!
    I have been using this forum for a while now as help with my son's leopard gecko. The things I google and find information for has led me to you all so many times and so far the advice I have used from here has helped. However, now I am in need of some major help for our little guy. Here is our background.

    We have a 4-5 month old leopard gecko named Dozer. The vet is certain Dozer is a male. We got Dozer at the end of June from Pet Co and he was doing well. Then one day about 5 weeks in to owning him he stopped eating. He was being fed medium sized crickets (as per Pet Co) and meal worms. He lives in a 40 gallon tank, has 3 hides, trees, has a warm side and a cool side. Was using a type of lizard carpet for the subtrate (can't remember the name). The humidity is usually around 40% and the temp is 85 - 90 on the hot side and 75- 80 on the cool.

    When we got him, we got him for my teenage son who has significant anxiety. He held a Leo that a friend of ours has. He thought it was the coolest thing and he wanted one of his own. Well, since he never really wants anything we got him Dozer and about $450 worth of equipment. We got Dozer home and my son was scared to touch him. Well, I was not a reptile person. I certainly wasn't going to touch the thing. Dozer was not touched for about 3 weeks. My son finally found the courage to put his hand in the tank to allow Dozer to walk next to it, but he still was too scared to pick him up or handle him in any way.
    Then around week 5, Dozer got sick. He started with diarrhea. It was so smelly! I started googling what was going on. He also had just had a very difficult shed. As per a thread on this forum, it was suggested a Leo with diarrhea needed to get to the vet. My son said Dozer had also not eaten in several days. So, I called the vet. And got him in the next day.
    Now, I have NEVER touched a lizard before. My son certainly was not going to and neither was anyone else in my family. So, I buried my anxiety and picked Dozer up. He squirmed like crazy but finally settled when I put him on my chest. It was kind of cool. After a couple minutes, I put him back in his tank and he immediately had diarrhea. Good timing, yes?
    The next day, I took him to the vet. The vet said his problem was he ate food too big for him and that he was not getting enough calcium. Pet Co also said their crickets were being fed calcium and other vitamins so we don't have to worry about it. Uh huh. Anyway, they gave Dozer a dewormer, which he FOUGHT with them. The vet said he has never seen a Leo fight and squirm like this one did.
    By that night, Dozer had lost function of his back legs. I googled this. I saw that giving him warm baths and rubbing his belly would help him pass whatever he had in it and that he was probably impacted. I called the vet the next day. He agreed. He said he could not really doing anything for him because he is so small. No enema, no surgery, nothing. So, for the last 3 weeks, I have given him warm baths once or twice a day and rubbed his belly. For about 2 weeks I gave him chicken baby food to eat so ha was getting some sort of nutrition. He would drink a little bit if I put a soaked qtip in front of his mouth.
    He still cannot walk on his back legs, however, when I hold him up, he can move them, very slowly. He can also grip my finger with his paws. He is also eating meal worms again this week. He still has not pooped though. His belly goes from being dark some days to not so dark other days. I gave him a little bit of prunes yesterday. He LOVED it. but still no poop. Oh! He also had another very bad shed last week. It took two days and I had to get it off of him. Overnight he had gotten some of his skin caught on 3 of his paws. Well, the next day when I went to check on him, the skin was tight, so now he is also dealing with 3 blackened feet. I felt so bad, but he was not like that the night before.
    So, here I am, at a total loss. I don't want my little friend to die. I have tried everything I can think of and read to help him. I cuddle with him to keep him warm. He loves to sleep on my shoulder with my hand over him while I rub his belly.
    Here are my questions, finally.

    1. What else can I do to help him get rid of this impaction since the vet won't give him an enema or do surgery?

    2. What can I do for his little paws?

    3. Is it too late?

    Please don't think bad of my son. He has specialties. He now holds Dozer when I let him (only when I feel Dozer is well enough to handle it). We jumped into owning a Leo way to quickly. I know that now. Would I do things differently? Of course, but here we are. Please do not respond if you are going to judge. I feel bad enough. This little guy has my heart and I am trying to do everything I can for him.
    Thank you if you have gotten this far. And thank you even more if you can help.

    Jodie

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    The next day, I took him to the vet. The vet said his problem was he ate food too big for him and that he was not getting enough calcium. Pet Co also said their crickets were being fed calcium and other vitamins so we don't have to worry about it. Uh huh. Anyway, they gave Dozer a dewormer, which he FOUGHT with them. The vet said he has never seen a Leo fight and squirm like this one did.
    By that night, Dozer had lost function of his back legs. I googled this. I saw that giving him warm baths and rubbing his belly would help him pass whatever he had in it and that he was probably impacted. I called the vet the next day. He agreed. He said he could not really doing anything for him because he is so small. No enema, no surgery, nothing. So, for the last 3 weeks, I have given him warm baths once or twice a day and rubbed his belly. For about 2 weeks I gave him chicken baby food to eat so ha was getting some sort of nutrition. He would drink a little bit if I put a soaked qtip in front of his mouth.
    He still cannot walk on his back legs, however, when I hold him up, he can move them, very slowly. He can also grip my finger with his paws. He is also eating meal worms again this week. He still has not pooped though. His belly goes from being dark some days to not so dark other days. I gave him a little bit of prunes yesterday. He LOVED it. but still no poop.
    Oh! He also had another very bad shed last week. It took two days and I had to get it off of him. Overnight he had gotten some of his skin caught on 3 of his paws. Well, the next day when I went to check on him, the skin was tight, so now he is also dealing with 3 blackened feet. I felt so bad, but he was not like that the night before.
    So, here I am, at a total loss. I don't want my little friend to die. I have tried everything I can think of and read to help him. I cuddle with him to keep him warm. He loves to sleep on my shoulder with my hand over him while I rub his belly.
    Here are my questions, finally.

    1. What else can I do to help him get rid of this impaction since the vet won't give him an enema or do surgery?

    2. What can I do for his little paws?

    3. Is it too late?

    Please don't think bad of my son. He has specialties. He now holds Dozer when I let him (only when I feel Dozer is well enough to handle it). We jumped into owning a Leo way to quickly. I know that now. Would I do things differently? Of course, but here we are. Please do not respond if you are going to judge. I feel bad enough. This little guy has my heart and I am trying to do everything I can for him.
    Thank you if you have gotten this far. And thank you even more if you can help.

    Jodie
    Welcome aboard Dozer, Jodie, & son! It sounds like Dozer is not getting Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 or any other supplements. That could cause metabolic bone disease (MBD).

    Please get some Zoo Med Repti Calcium with vitamin D3 from PetCo today or tomorrow. Make a paste of it with water. Put some on Dozer's snout. See whether he will lick it off. Calcium with D3 will help his MBD. It could cure his MBD if it is just beginning. That may be why his back legs barely work.

    He also needs Zoo Med's Reptivite multivitamins withOUT D3. That can be ordered from the Reptile Supply Company.

    At this time I highly recommend Oxbow's Carnivore Care powdered food to get him on track.

    1. What else can I do to help him get rid of this impaction since the vet won't give him an enema or do surgery?
    • Don't feed him mealworms or insects. If he has an impaction, more chitin will only make things worse.
    • Do you think he might eat small hornworms? PetCo sells these in 4 packs. Let me know. Buy very small hornworms and keep them in a picnic cooler. Otherwise they'll quickly grow too big.
    • ***** Stick with Oxbow's Carnivore Care powdered all-in-one diet. Feed Gerber's turkey baby food until your Carnivore Care arrives.
    • Warm soaks with belly massages from throat to vent.
    • A couple drops of vegetable oil, olive oil, or mineral oil on his snout might be effective.
    • Does his belly feel hard or soft?
    • Does Dozer have a warm humid hide as well as warm dry and cool dry hides?
    • Can you keep it moist 24/7?

    2. What can I do for his little paws?
    Please post a picture of Dozer and another picture that shows his 3 blackened feet.

    Warm soaks a couple times daily may also loosen stuck shed little-by-little. You may need to pry the stuck shed off with a tweezers layer by layer.

    3. Is it too late?
    I don't think so.

    For link 81 (& 87) click: Leopard Gecko Care Sheet (abbreviated) -- August 2020 update (show handout)

    Is this vet a reptile specialist? If not, here's a link to find one.

    Did your vet do a fecal to find the actual cause of Dozer's diarrhea? I don't think "too large" crickets caused it. You've mentioned that it's quite smelly!

    Gerber's turkey baby food (2nd foods) is better than chicken baby food. Oxbow's Carnivore Care is a complete diet! It is preferred for ailing geckos.
    Oxbow's Carnivore Care
    Oxbow's Carnivore Care is a premium all-in-one powdered food one mixes with water.

    Once opened Carnivore Care ONLY keeps 7 days in the refrigerator, because it has no preservatives. To keep Carnivore Care viable beyond 7 days Oxbow's vet and developer recommends:
    • Once opened FREEZE remaining Carnivore Care for up to 3 months in its own pouch. Remove all air & seal. Place that pouch inside a Ziploc baggie or inside an airtight container. Then FREEZE it!
    • Take necessary amounts out of the container directly from the freezer.
    • Then remove all air & reseal.
    • Replace Carnivore Care back into the freezer.

    For link 34 click: Powdered Assist Foods: Oxbow’s Carnivore Care, Lafeber's Emeraid for Carnivors, & Fluker's Repta+Boost

    Click: How to Assist Feed a Leopard Gecko? - YouTube

    Directions for Use:
    As a general guideline, mix 2 parts Carnivore Care to 1 part warm water. The volume of water may be adjusted to obtain optimal feeding consistency. Amounts are general guidelines and should be adjusted based on patient condition. Divide into 2-4 feedings or as indicated by your veterinarian. Water should be available to the animal at all times.

    Individual needs vary with age, genetics, activity level, and medical condition. Consult with a veterinarian for specific directions.
    Leopard geckos require regular powdered supplements and well-fed prey: calcium with vitamin D3, multivitamins without D3, and sometimes plain calcium too. I use Zoo Med supplements for all my geckos. Here's what Dozer needs right now.
    Weekly Schedule 124 for Leopard Geckos 0-12 months old
    (withOUT UVB)
    Early stage metabolic bone disease (MBD) symptoms include uneven (lopsided) gait, walking on one or both "elbows", bowed limbs, belly dragging, and an underbite.
    The Reptile Supply Company based in Lodi, California stocks Zoo Med's ReptiVite multivitamins withOUT D3.
    Feed lightly dusted prey 3x per week.

    • Monday > > crickets or dubia lightly dusted with Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3
    • Tuesday > > mealworms, superworms, or black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix worms) > > no dusting
    • Wednesday > > crickets or dubia lightly dusted with pure precipitated calcium carbonate withOUT D3 (Zoo Med's Repti Calcium or NOW human brand calcium)
    • Thursday > > mealworms, superworms, or black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix worms) > > no dusting
    • Friday > > crickets or dubia lightly dusted with Zoo Med's ReptiVite multivitamins withOUT D3
    • Saturday > > mealworms, superworms, or black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix worms) > > no dusting
    • Sunday > > no food or free choice > > no dusting
    Please order some dry diet from Professional Reptiles to feed Dozer's crickets and mealworms. Aliza (GU's acpart) uses this already ground dry diet from "Professional Reptiles" for her insect and worm food as well as for her mealworm/superworm bedding.
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 08-17-2020 at 04:26 PM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside an enclosure <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

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    Hello Elizabeth,
    Thank you so much for all this help!!!
    I have been giving him Calcium +D. I was mixing it in the baby food. I noticed the tip of his tail turning blood red. I red somewhere that this was caused by calcium overload. So, I backed off the calcium. I have still given him some, but only a couple times a week, not daily.
    Our Pet Co does not have calcium w/o D. I did buy Repashy's Calcium Plus today. I will get him Turkey babyfood as well and order all the good you suggested. I do not know if our Petco has hornworms. I will ask.
    His belly is soft. He lets me rub it, but I can tell his right side bothers him more than his left. I am going to try and add a bunch of pictures. I hope it works.

    I hope these pics help. He leans to the right side. He does not have a lump, just FYI.n
    Thank you so much for your help!!!

    JodieIMG_8329.jpgIMG_8339.jpgIMG_8338.jpgIMG_8337.jpgIMG_8333.jpgIMG_8330.jpgIMG_8328.jpgIMG_8327.jpg
    Last edited by Jodie; 08-17-2020 at 10:15 PM.
    Likes Elizabeth Freer liked this post

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    His front legs do look a little bendy so MBD might be a problem and the black feet is kinda normal they will be dark or light depending on the temperature or mood of the gecko but since you said he wasnt getting supplemented it my be from a lack of vitamin D.
    Thanks Elizabeth Freer, Jodie thanked for this post
    Likes Elizabeth Freer liked this post

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    Thank you! I just hope that I can reverse it.
    Likes Elizabeth Freer liked this post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
    Thank you! I just hope that I can reverse it.
    MBD cant be reversed you can only stop its advance.

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    Does MBD stop Leo's from pooping? He still hasn't pooped in almost a month. I think he is getting ready to shed as well. He is looking dull tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
    Hello Elizabeth,
    Thank you so much for all this help!!!
    I have been giving him Calcium +D. I was mixing it in the baby food. I noticed the tip of his tail turning blood red. I red somewhere that this was caused by calcium overload. So, I backed off the calcium. I have still given him some, but only a couple times a week, not daily.
    Our Pet Co does not have calcium w/o D. I did buy Repashy's Calcium Plus today. I will get him Turkey babyfood as well and order all the good you suggested. I do not know if our Petco has hornworms. I will ask.
    His belly is soft. He lets me rub it, but I can tell his right side bothers him more than his left. I am going to try and add a bunch of pictures. I hope it works.

    I hope these pics help. He leans to the right side. He does not have a lump, just FYI.n
    Thank you so much for your help!!!

    Jodie
    You are welcome!

    Please go back to where you attached these photos. First click "Insert (Photos) Inline" and then click "Done". That will place your photos in your message so I can enlarge them. As attached images they are pretty small.

    Imgur and YouTube offer free online sites for sharing photos and videos.

    Here's another way to post a picture.
    1. At the foot of your post click the Edit Post button.
    2. Then click Go Advanced button.
    3. Scroll all the way down to Management Attachments. Click.
    4. Click: Add Files. Select a photo from your files and upload it.
    5. Drag that photo into the box beneath.
    6. ***Click both buttons on the right: "First click Insert Inline" and then click "Done".
    Since you bought Repashy's Calcium Plus here's the schedule Aliza (GU's acpart) has used. She bred leopard geckos for many years. NOW brand calcium carbonate for humans is safe for geckos too. NOW brand plain calcium never expires. You can find it on Amazon and maybe at a local health foods store.

    Excessive calcium intake can cause problems similar to lack of calcium from too little vitamin D3. I hadn't heard that it might cause a bright red tail tip.

    Repashy's Calcium Plus (all-in-one multivitamins)
    (withOUT UVB)
    Early stage metabolic bone disease (MBD) symptoms include uneven (lopsided) gait, walking on "elbows", bowed limbs, belly dragging, and an underbite.
    1. Feeding & Supplementing HATCHLING leopard geckos - 0-2 months old & any slow-growing leopard geckos under ~6 grams ~ Feed 3x per week.
    • Feed Tuesdays, Thursdays, & Saturdays
    • Dust prey with Repashy's Calcium Plus (all-in-one) multivitamins at every other feeding
    • ALSO: Keep a bottle cap of plain calcium in the cage 24/7.
    • [See dusting chart below]

    2. Feeding & Supplementing JUVENILE leopard geckos ~ Feed 3x per week.
    • Feed Tuesdays, Thursdays, & Saturdays
    • Dust prey with Repashy's Calcium Plus (all-in-one) multivitamins at every other feeding
    • [See dusting chart below]

    3. Feeding & Supplementing ADULT leopard geckos ~ Feed 2x per week.
    • Mondays ~ feed (no dusting)
    • Thursdays ~ feed & dust prey with Repashy's Calcium Plus (all-in-one) multivitamins


    \/ \/ \/


    R = Repashy's Calcium Plus, Cc = pure precipitated calcium carbonate (withOUT vitamin D3)

    Week 1 Repashy dusting (for HATCHLINGS & JUVENILES):
    M-------T-------W------Th-------F-------Sat-------Sun
    ............R..................................... ......R...................


    Week 2 Repashy dusting (for HATCHLINGS & JUVENILES):
    M-------T-------W------Th-------F-------Sat-------Sun
    ..................................R............... ...........................


    -----> For hatchlings 0-2 months old & any slow-growing leopard geckos under ~6 grams: Aliza also places a bottle cap of pure precipitated calcium carbonate (withOUT vitamin D3) in the cage 24/7.


    For link 144 click: Repashy's Calcium Plus (all-in-one) multivitamin Schedules for Leopard Geckos -- March 2020 update
    Which brand of calcium with D3 do you have? Calcium with D3 should be taken no more than 2x per week! Vitamin D3 is fat soluble. That means the D3 sticks around in a leo's body. A single D3 dose works throughout the week metabolizing any plain calcium carbonate a leo receives.

    Here are my Hornworm Care Guidelines. Please see the caution about feeding a leo hornworms while on reptile carpet. If you handfeed the hornworm to Dozer, there shouldn't be a problem.

    Hornworm Tips:
    Keep hornworms just like this:
    DSCI2738_zpsnu79yexp.jpg
    [Photo credit to GU's lbanta]

    When kept by the following method, it's easy to keep hornworms alive (and of edible size for many leopard geckos) for 4+ weeks. Make sure the company includes enough food. Keep extra food in the cooler with the hornworms, NOT in the refrigerator. IF you keep hornworm food in the refrigerator, the food will get too hard for hornworms to eat.

    • Hornworms grow rapidly when kept at normal room temperatures!
    • When hornworms nearly reach a good size for feeding, transfer them (in container) to a picnic cooler or wine cooler to lessen rapid growth.
    • I keep hornworms in a "medium" Playmate Igloo cooler. That cooler has dimensions: 12.25 x 7.5 x 14 inches tall for the base and height.
    • Add 1 solid ice pack replaced 2x daily . . . . . . every 12 hours.
    • Keep the temperature inside the cooler ~55*F (12.8*C).
    • Turn the hornworm container upside down so that their food is on the top and the lid is the new "base".
    • Elevate the hornworm container off the ground with egg flats or a couple pencils to give your hornworms AIR.
    • Don't let the hornworm container touch the ice pack.
    • Empty hornworm poop once a day.
    • Serve the hornworms plain at first. Then try lightly dusting them with pure precipitated calcium carbonate (withOUT vitamin D3) to further balance their calcium-to-phosphorus ratio.
    • Should a hornworm get mangled, clean up its green juice right away. The green "juice" is difficult to remove when dry.

    For link 33 click: Hornworm Care Guidelines
    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 08-18-2020 at 05:04 AM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside an enclosure <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
    Hello Elizabeth,
    Thank you so much for all this help!!!
    I have been giving him Calcium +D. I was mixing it in the baby food. I noticed the tip of his tail turning blood red. I red somewhere that this was caused by calcium overload. So, I backed off the calcium. I have still given him some, but only a couple times a week, not daily.
    Our Pet Co does not have calcium w/o D. I did buy Repashy's Calcium Plus today. I will get him Turkey babyfood as well and order all the good you suggested. I do not know if our Petco has hornworms. I will ask.
    His belly is soft. He lets me rub it, but I can tell his right side bothers him more than his left. I am going to try and add a bunch of pictures. I hope it works.

    I hope these pics help. He leans to the right side. He does not have a lump, just FYI.n
    Thank you so much for your help!!!

    JodieIMG_8329.jpgIMG_8339.jpgIMG_8338.jpgIMG_8337.jpgIMG_8333.jpgIMG_8330.jpgIMG_8328.jpgIMG_8327.jpg
    Thanks for fixing these pics. What I see are grayish toes. If they were actually black, that would be a sign that the toes were dead.

    Does he still have a nail on each toe?
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside an enclosure <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)

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    Please reply to these issues:
    1. Did you try a couple drops of vegetable oil, olive oil, or mineral oil on his snout? That's a common remedy for impaction/constipation in geckos.
    2. Excessive calcium carbonate could cause constipation.
    3. Does Dozer have a moist hide right next to his warm dry hide?
    4. Does he have fresh water in his enclosure 24/7?
    5. Is his carpet a sand mat?
    6. Try small hornworms.
    7. Feed him a soft diet until he poops, so we can rule out impaction.
    8. Did he shed last night?


    If it was still difficult, I recommend the large terra cotta hide with a basin like this one.

    Here's an excellent proactive approach! This terra cotta cave will keep your leo's humidity higher 24/7. Since the humidification cave is made from clay, colors vary some. Use this cave + an 8 ounce water dish for your leopard gecko.

    July 2020: My leo loves her new large humid hide! Place that hide on a textured ceramic tile on the warm end. Use sphagnum moss inside as a bedding. Fill the basin on top daily.

    Last edited by Elizabeth Freer; 08-18-2020 at 06:02 AM.
    "If you can hear crickets, it's still summer." ;)

    "May the peace that
    You find at the beach
    Follow you home"

    Click: Leo Care Sheet's Table of Contents

    ===> No plain calcium, calcium with D3, or multivitamins inside an enclosure <===

    Oedura castelnaui ~ Lepidodactylus lugubris ~ Phelsuma barbouri ~ Ptychozoon kuhli ~ Cyrtodactylus peguensis zebraicus ~ Phyllurus platurus ~ Eublepharis macularius ~ Correlophus ciliatus ~ (L kimhowelli) ~ (P tigrinus) ~ (P klemmeri) ~ (H garnotii)
    Thanks Jodie thanked for this post

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