Hybrids

[geckocrazy]

I was wondering how people feel about hybrids. I saw the crested/chahoua hybrid and had a mixed reaction about it. I think it is a very nice looking animal but on the other hand it is now a mutt (pardon the term). It really no longer fits in either species of rhacodactylus. I wonder how hybrids will effect the gene pool in the future. I also wonder if this hybrid occurs in the wild. Anyways, I just wanted to start this chat to see how others felt about it. Don't take me wrong I am not taking away anything from the animal. It is very interesting.

 

[GeckoFiend]

I don't know about the Rhac hybrids accuring in the wild, but I do have an opinion on them in general.

I have no problem with anyone wanting to create hybrids, in fact, I'm going to try producing some chahoua/ciliatus myself. As long as they aren't misrepresented, I see no harm in producing them. The problem arrises when people try to pass them off as something they're not-this is more of a problem w/ snakes, I think, because you can create some animals completely different from the original species.

 

[mainelyreptiles]

Hybrids do occur in the wild on occasion. One sub-specie of kingsnake, the Peninsula Intergrade Kingsnake, is a cross between the Florida and Eastern Kingsnake. This crossbreeding occured in the wild and the Peninsula Intergrade Kingsnake has been classified as a seperate ssp.

I believe most breeders do realize that by crossbreeding species the risk of contaminating (for lack of a better word) gene pools is a great risk to future generations and most will not practice it.

 

[mainelyreptiles]

I believe most breeders do realize that by crossbreeding species the risk of contaminating (for lack of a better word) gene pools is a great risk to future generations and most will not practice it.

I have no problem with anyone wanting to create hybrids, in fact, I'm going to try producing some chahoua/ciliatus myself. As long as they aren't misrepresented, I see no harm in producing them.

Well, I can see that I'm wrong! :shock:

 

[GeckoFiend]

I'm not most breeders

 

[mainelyreptiles]

It is my goal to maintain genetically diverse bloodlines by keeping detailed geneology records, as well as regularly introducing unrelated animals to my collection. I feel that these practices will better allow me to produce healthy animals with strong genes.

You made that clear in your first post. If you do follow through with the chahoua/ciliatus breeding project be sure to delete this paragraph from your home page! 8)

 

[GeckoFiend]

Why delete that? Mixing two species is about as diverse as you can get

 

[oscar]

i knew this was going to come up eventually. its somethign that is hotly discussed on alot of snakes boards. i'm not sure why it does not come up more often on lizard boards. i am a guy who is fascinated by new and unusual things and when i go to some breeders websites, such as Mezoziac Reptiles (or something like that), i am amazed by the stunning one-of-a-king animals he produces. i, personally, dont think that i would ever try and hybridize anything myself. as much as i enjoy seeing them, i feel that if i were to breed, i'd keep them pure. i have no issues with hybrids if i were to keep all of them, but as soon as they left my posession there's no telling where'd they go and what they'd be represented as.

what i dont understand 100% is why, although the majority of snake breeders seem to dislike hybrids, certain ones are acceptable, I.E. creamsicle corns and frosted corns.

Scott.

 

[mainelyreptiles]

I don't know if there would be any long-term ramifications to future breeding stocks when animals are hybridized. For example, if babamba breeds the chahoua/ciliatus pair and sold one of the offspring to someone who eventually bred it to another cilatus and the offspring was bred to cilatus again, after several generations of cilatus breeding will the offspring contain predominately cilatus genes without any chahoua genes being present? Would the chahoua genes be completely eliminated or will there always be chahoua genes present in this particular stock which may cause problems for future breeders trying to produce pure cilatus stock?

 

[mainelyreptiles]

As an afterthought to my last post hybridizing could also cause legal problems between breeders. If one breeder buys an offspring of the chahoua/cilatus hydrid from another breeder with intent to use it as breeding stock for a cilatus project who has not been supplied with any type of genealogical record of the animal because the seller was not supplied with any record either.As a precautionary measure the buyer has a blood sample taken for genetic testing only to find that it contains chahoua genes. This could cause the buyer to sue the selling breeder.

Any other thoughts on this issue? Does anyone know of a situation like this actually occuring?

 

[GeckoFiend]

If someone wants to rip-off another person by lying about the animal's past, there is nothing you can do to stop them-they could always make their own hybrids w/ little effort and scam people that way....

 

[HERPKING]

i love hybrids, as long as they are sold for wat they are there is nothing wrong with them. i once had a king x milk snake cross and he was amazing and i want to make some chahoua x ciliatus. i'm also surpised how everyone here takes kindly to hybrids, there another reptile fourm i go on and if u even say the word hybrid every one goes nuts on u.

 

[Brian]

Usually I think that they are simply repeating what certain individuals have written and said in the hobby.

I find it funny that some people will go crazy if you try to mix species, yet have no problems mixing subspecies or genetically distinct subpopulations. I wonder if they'd stop breeding their animals if a paper came out that said their species of choice actually was two cryptic species rendering all their captive animals possible hybrids.

Personally I do think there is a risk if the animal that is the hybrid has health problems.

Are Rhac hybrids fertile?

 

[G&MGeckos]

I still not real sure where I sit on this.
On one hand I do think some are very cool looking. On the other I have to ask myself is it really with the best interest of the animal or the hobby for that matter. Some of the crosses I have been seeing are not even from the same habitat types. Although the animal looks OK on the outside you have to ask yourself "WHAT IS GOING ON THE INSIDE?" Which until recently I never really thought about until it was pointed out to me by someone else. I think it is a valid question. Do we really know?
This hobby as become so competitive that I think people are becoming impatient to be the first to produce this or that. Without fully thinking about the long term effects on the animals or the hobby. With the state of things around the world we don't really know what is going to be cut off next. I know there are tons of Leopard Gecko breeders that would love some fresh blood lines but can't get them now. Will some breeders misrepresent the animals? Probally will happen. If interest is ever lost in this or that hybrid I am sure someone will be misleading done to unload animals. And then there are the hybrids from our own regions what if one of these was released? Do we really know that it would evenually be washed out or could it spell ruin for a species that may already be in danger? Then there is Natural hybrids how could you not think this was ok. After all it is mother nature. Still tons of uncertainties on both sides of the fence.

 

[GeckoFiend]

As far as leos go, I know that some breeders combined a different species of eubephlarine gecko with macularius to make some "snows." I've never seen these animals in particular labled as hybrids.

 

[G&MGeckos]

As far as leos go, I know that some breeders combined a different species of eubephlarine gecko with macularius to make some "snows." I've never seen these animals in particular labled as hybrids.

Aaron, I didn't know that. I still am just not sure where I am on this. After I posted a response on this issue here I read the next thread and then it really started to set in how deep this goes. Because then I started thinking how is selective breeding for color any different. I do think some of the hybrids look very cool, but it makes me nervous about the furture of our hobby. And of some of the species we work with. Lord knows there is always someone trying to take advantage of the stituation and that could ruin the hobby.

 

[Brian]

All Leopard Geckos are potentially hybrids I thought. I thought that no one really paid attention to the different subspecies when breeding them. Although I suppose the subspecies could be demoted/promoted in the future.

 

[Bowfinger]

We will find out when a species is extinct in the wild and all we have is albino piebald two-headed fire morphs to start a release program :shock: Then the fun starts all over trying to breed for the rare expensive normals

 

[Hazpat]

a picture is worth a long post

 

[docszoo]

You realy like your picture dont you? :lol: