Anyone in the maine area?

[DeadIrishD]

Can anyone from ME, explain to me what is going on with the laws on herps?

I belive I read somewhere, that the MHS, perhaps it may have been a diffrent org, was trying to change ME's laws on herps and I was wondering how everything was coming along.

 

[Dr Alan]

What's going on is an impasse between Inland Fisheries & Wildlife, which generates and enforces regulations, and rational thought. Species are sometimes banned for logical defensible reasons, but often the banned lists include environmentally and physically innocuous species. As far as I can tell, there is no liklihood that the regulations will be in any way relaxed. A very significant percentage, in some cases a majority of species discussed on forums like this are on the banned list in Maine. Bottom line; if they don't know what it is or anything about it, the species is most likely to end up on the restricted list.

 

[DeadIrishD]

that sucks.

Are you a member of the MHS? I joined it at the herp show in manchester and only met two people personally from MHS.

It has to be one of the best orgs I have ever joined, except for the news letter saying when and where things are and living in NH too far away from most of it, the guy talking about breeding house snakes, and going to the show in Daytona is an amazing writer.

 

[Dr Alan]

Are you a member of the MHS? I joined it at the herp show in manchester and only met two people personally from MHS.

Yes I am, and it is a good organization.

 

[DeadIrishD]

It's nice to meet you, I'm Dan.

 

[Mack2]

I live in Portland ME, just moved from NY, for school, and I am having a really hard time getting the permits to move my animals here. Do you know the actions that they will take if they find out you have those animals without the proper permits? I’m thinking of not getting the permits because I will only be here for like another year to a year and a half and I don't know if it’s worth the effort to get them.


If it’s like a fine I won’t get the permits but if they confiscate the animals I think I will most definitely get the permits.


The only animals that I have that they will allow are crested geckos.

I also have two Sulcata and one Leopard Tortoise’s. I just bought two R. Lechianus and will be getting them in the spring, and a collection of tarantulas.

Suggestions please!!!!!

 

[Dr Alan]

While ferreting out illegal fruit-eating lizards and tropical arachnids is not a high priority on the law enforcement agenda, it is my understanding that there is a good chance your animals will be confiscated if discovered. Obviously there are a lot of Maine residents who keep restricted species and maintain a low profile. The permitting process is cumbersome and limited and the permits cost $25 per species and generally allow for limited numbers, sometimes only one, of a species. And I don't think there's any liklihood they'd OK your Ts. You need to choose your friends and confidants carefully........

My opinions are strictly hypothetical, of course.

 

[Mack2]

What would you do?

Yes there’s little chance for the T's, I have talked to the fish and wildlife, and it's basically taboo here. When I asked they said "what propose do they serve, and why would we want them in our state?" Quit offensive isn't it.

 

[Dr Alan]

This is the LIST, published by the Maine Herpetological Society of what is allowed in Maine without special permitting. Anything not on this list is either banned or restricted.


EXCEPTION CODES
BIO - "BIOHAZARD" This is a species whose native environment/climate is not unlike Maine's. The chances of this species being able to establish itself and thrive in Maine are reasonably high.
E&T - "ENDANGERED AND THREATENED" This animal is endangered and threatened in its native habitat.
SN - "SPECIAL NEEDS" These animals require highly specialized care in captivity.
CB- Captive Bred Only
ssp- all subspecies unrestcited



SNAKES
Water Snakes (Nerodia) ssp
Exceptions- Northern Water Snake (N. sipedon) BIO
Atlantic Salt Marsh Snake (N. clarkiitaeniata) E&T
Concho Water Snake (N. paucimaculata) E&T
Rat Snakes, American New World (Elaphe) ssp
Exceptions- Black Rat Snake (E. o. obseleta) BIO and E&T in Mass.
Old World Rat Snakes (Elaphe) ssp SN & BIO
King Snakes (Lampropeltis) ssp
Exceptions- Scarlet King Snake (L. triangulum elapsoides) SN
St. Helena Mt. King Snake (L. z. zonata) BIO
Milk Snakes (Lampropeltis) ssp
Exceptions- Eastern Milk Snake (L. t. triangulum) BIO
Red Milk Snake (L. t. syspila) BIO
Pale Milk Snake (L. t.multistrata) BIO
Indigo Snake, South American Cribo (Drymarchon) ssp (CB)
Exceptions- All U.S. Indigo Snakes SN and E&T
Gopher and Pine Snakes (Pituophis) ssp
Glossy Snakes (Arizonas) ssp
House Snakes (Boaedon) ssp
Sunbeam Snake (Xenopeltis unicolor)
Boa Constrictor (Boa c. constrictor)
Ball Python (Python regius) (CB, due to ticks)
Rainbow Boas (Epicrates cenchrin) ssp
Rosy Boa (Lichanura trivirgata)
Jungle Carpet Python (Morelia spilota) ssp
Children's Python (Liasis childreni)
Kenyan Sand Boa (Eryx colubrinus loveridgei) (CB)
Rough Scaled Sand Boa (Eryx conicus) (CB)

LIZARDS
Common Agama (Agama agama)
Giant Amevia (Amevia amevia)
Basilisks, common (Basilicus) ssp
Bearded Dragon ( Pogona vitticeps)
Anoles (Anolis) ssp
Chuckwallas, Chilean (Phymaturus) ssp
Gecko, Mediterranean (Hemidaclybus) ssp
Gecko, Banded (Coleonyx) ssp
Gecko, Day (Phelsuma) ssp
Gecko, Leopard (Eublepharis) ssp
Gecko, Tokay ( Gecko gecko)
Gecko, African Fat Tailed (Hemitheconyx caudicinctus) (CB)
Gecko, New Caledonian Crested (Rhacodactylus ciliatus)
Lizard, Alligator (Gerrhonotus) ssp
Lizard, Collard and Leopard (Crotaphylus) ssp
Lizard, Curly Tailed (Leicephalus) ssp
Lizard, False clubed tailed (Pseudocordylus) ssp
Lizard, Girdled tailed (Cordylus) ssp
Lizard, Glass (Ophisaurus) ssp
Lizard, Greater Earless (Holbrookia) ssp
Lizard, Mountain Horned (Calotes) ssp
Lizard, Plated (Gerrhosaurus) ssp
Lizard, Rockn (Platysaurus) ssp
Lizard, Side Blotched (Uta) ssp
Lizard, Spiny (Sceloporus) ssp
Lizard, Tree and Bush (Urosaurus) ssp
Lizard, Zebra Tailed (Calisaurus) ssp
Lizard, Black (Ctenosaurus) ssp
Lizard, Whiptail (Cnemidophorus) ssp
Lizard, Night (Xantusia) ssp
Skink, Blue Tongued (Tiliqua) ssp (CB)
Skink, SW Five Lined (Eumeces inexpectatus)
Tegu, Common (Tupinambis) ssp (CB)
Tegu, Dwarf (Callopistes
Water Dragon (Physignathus) ssp
S. American Swift (Liolaemus) ssp
Exception- (L. altissimus) no reason given

TURTLES
Red-Eared Slider (Chrysemys scipta elegans) 4" minimum

AMPHIBIANS
Horned Frog (Ceratophys) ssp
White's Tree Frog (Litrioa caerula)
Green Tree Frog (Hyla cinerea)
Red Eyed Tree Frog (Agaaychnis)
Pixie Frog - African Bullfrog (Pyxicephalus) ssp

 

[klondike4001]

No Uroplatus..... yuck.

 

[Mack2]

I also found that same list on the Maine fish and wildlife. Not a lot of anything! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[klondike4001]

So one would need permits for any dart frogs? How do you convince someone they are a necessity? What are the penalties for getting caught with animals not on the list?

 

[Dr Alan]

So one would need permits for any dart frogs?

Yep

How do you convince someone they are a necessity?

Good question. We're talking about dealing with obdurate low-level bureauocrats, here

What are the penalties for getting caught with animals not on the list?

Generally only confiscation, I think.

 

[klondike4001]

I think I'll stay in Texas

 

[Mack2]

Generally only confiscation, I think.

What will happen after that, can one get the animals back after a fine or getting the proper permits? If not what happens to the animals?

 

[Dr Alan]

What will happen after that, can one get the animals back after a fine or getting the proper permits? If not what happens to the animals?

I honestly don't believe there is a set process. I know folks with iguanas who have been issued permits subsequent to an invasion (oops, I meant inspection), but the situation with crocodilians and venomous animals is quite different. In some cases, animals have been permanantly confiscated with "ownership" transferred to an out-of-state facility like NERD, in New Hampshire. What they'd do with everything in between, and with invertebrates - virtually all of which are illegal - is anybody's guess. Interestingly, I happen to know that there is a breeding colony of Indian Walking Stick insects, Carausius morosus, that is maintained by one of the state labs in Augusta. I'm pretty sure that the "enforcers" would be unhappy if they learned that anyone else was keeping these interesting parthenogenetic bugs. They might get loose and destroy the moose habitat. You never know...... :lol:

 

[Mack2]

You are from Maine Right? And if so do you know the permitting process? The only animals of mine that I am really worried about, bringing them and losing them, are my tortoises and my pair of Lech's. The Crested’s are ok here and the inverts are just for fun, I mean I would be very upset if I lost them but it wouldn't be a huge financial loss.

 

[Dr Alan]

You call Inland Fisheries and Wildlife and they inspect your setups and issue a permit if they decide your enclosures and husbandry are adequate. A fee is involved. I think the Rhacs would be permitted without difficulty; don't know about the tortoises. I suspect the phone numbers etc are probably on the state website, but I don't know for sure.

 

[PreditorNprey]

Mack, how far away is that from Portsmouth NH?

I can house them here for you, depending on how much room they would take up, and if you can bring there enclosures up here, you can come and see them almost any time without fear of them being confiscated, as I think they put them to sleep. (not sure, but I know a lady who almost had her snake put down.)

and I might be interested in buying the T's as I have a small addiction to them, if they come with their enclosures that'd be a plus too. (that is if you'd want to sell them.)

 

[Mack2]

Well I’m in Portland; I don't know how far that is. Do you know, about, how far it is?

It’s another possibility, thanks for the offer. I may take you up on that. It might just be a life saver. What kind of animals do you have? Have you ever worked with Lechie’s? Thanks again

The T's would probably not be for sale, but you never know. But yes they would need a home as well. I have a really big colorful redknee that I may be willing to part with.