breeding phelsuma?
- Thread starter Palex134
- Start date
the moof
New member
Its not always that simple Joe. They often are not compatable, or dislike eachother. It takes a lot of observation to know reasonably well that your two geckos are going to be compatable.
Also, many people would argue with you joe, and say that they should be cycled. I am of the opinion that it is not necessary, but it might induce breeding in your geckos.
best of luck,
*the moof*
Also, many people would argue with you joe, and say that they should be cycled. I am of the opinion that it is not necessary, but it might induce breeding in your geckos.
best of luck,
*the moof*
Indeed, I have heard reports from people that certain individual geckos are not compatable and will not mate. Usually I hear of a female that rejects a particular male (this applies to humans also).
In my personal experience breeding Phelsuma (including laticauda (golddust)), i have never had 2 adults of the opposite sex that would not reproduce together. Golddust in particular seem to breed like crazy - no matter how they are paired up. None of my laticauda, grandis or klemmeri have ever rejected a potential mate because one disliked the other.
As far as the cycling goes... The only time I ever cycled my golddust day geckos was to get them to STOP breeding so that the female could recover! I can't speak for most Phelsuma, but I certainly can say that laticauda do not need to be cycled to breed well.
So I ask you, Moof... Have you personally ever had an incompatible pair of Phelsuma???
Personally, I've never seen it - only heard the tales. I always wonder when I hear a case of supposed incompatability, "is it that the animals don't like eachother, or is it that one is unhealthy? Are the animals conditions being met? Is it the right time of year??? There are many possibilities for why 2 animals won't breed. - Maybe they're too closely related??
Its much easier for a keeper to externalize the problem, rather than consider that they may be doing something wrong with the husbandry.
Anyhow, I find golddust days to be extremely prolific and I would imagine Peter will have success with them.
In my personal experience breeding Phelsuma (including laticauda (golddust)), i have never had 2 adults of the opposite sex that would not reproduce together. Golddust in particular seem to breed like crazy - no matter how they are paired up. None of my laticauda, grandis or klemmeri have ever rejected a potential mate because one disliked the other.
As far as the cycling goes... The only time I ever cycled my golddust day geckos was to get them to STOP breeding so that the female could recover! I can't speak for most Phelsuma, but I certainly can say that laticauda do not need to be cycled to breed well.
So I ask you, Moof... Have you personally ever had an incompatible pair of Phelsuma???
Personally, I've never seen it - only heard the tales. I always wonder when I hear a case of supposed incompatability, "is it that the animals don't like eachother, or is it that one is unhealthy? Are the animals conditions being met? Is it the right time of year??? There are many possibilities for why 2 animals won't breed. - Maybe they're too closely related??
Its much easier for a keeper to externalize the problem, rather than consider that they may be doing something wrong with the husbandry.
Anyhow, I find golddust days to be extremely prolific and I would imagine Peter will have success with them.
the moof
New member
Yeah, i have had an incompatable pair. he nearly ate her! But she was bigger, so im sure that, had it gotten too agressive, she would have eaten him. In this case, he had floptail, but all other conditions were correct. I dont think they were related at all, so i rule that off possibilties. These were the much larger Phelsuma madagascariensis grandis, but still, i had to take the male back.
I have no experience with gold dusts, so you are probably correct that they are highly prolific.
regards,
*the moof*
I have no experience with gold dusts, so you are probably correct that they are highly prolific.
regards,
*the moof*
Lets see, species I have seen that have shown incompatibility/fighting/injuries at some time during the time I had them:
P. laticuada angulairs
P. mutablis
P. cepediana
P. guimbeaui
P. v-nigra comorograndis
P. ornata
P. barbouri
P. madagascariensis
P. madagascariensis grandis
P. inexpectata
P. brevicepts
P. astriata semicaranata
etc.
Hum, maybe that should have been a list of Phelsuma that I have
never had any aggression/mutilations/injury between mates.
It is in the nature of Phelsuma to be territorial and live in a hierarchy. Put a Phelsuma with such a behavior into a space smaller than what is natural and there will be problems. :twisted:
Joe is right that when conditions are optimal and all needs are met, Phelsuma stand a greater chance of not becoming aggressive. Otherwise, all bets are off.
P. laticuada angulairs
P. mutablis
P. cepediana
P. guimbeaui
P. v-nigra comorograndis
P. ornata
P. barbouri
P. madagascariensis
P. madagascariensis grandis
P. inexpectata
P. brevicepts
P. astriata semicaranata
etc.
Hum, maybe that should have been a list of Phelsuma that I have
never had any aggression/mutilations/injury between mates.
It is in the nature of Phelsuma to be territorial and live in a hierarchy. Put a Phelsuma with such a behavior into a space smaller than what is natural and there will be problems. :twisted:
Joe is right that when conditions are optimal and all needs are met, Phelsuma stand a greater chance of not becoming aggressive. Otherwise, all bets are off.
Thats not even what we were talking about, Frankie. If you'll start from the top you will see that this is about incompatability between a potential breeding pair. Not territorialism, fighting, aggression, ect. Its about whether the female will want to accept the male as a mate - not whether they can be housed together without beating each other up. Anyone who has kept Phelsuma has witnessed the violence.
The question here is, "will a female refuse to mate with a male just because she doesn't like that particular individual?"
The question here is, "will a female refuse to mate with a male just because she doesn't like that particular individual?"
And the answer is of course, "Yes", it does happens that a female (or a male) will decide that they do not want to accept the other. If she (or he) isn't interested in breeding, the mate is usually unsuitable, or unable to mate, or resources are scarce. If a keeper is lucky (and this is rare to happen), the two will live happily as platonic friends. What usually happens, you guessed it, territorialism, fighting, aggression, etc. Which, back to my answer, is why we watch closely for signs of aggression as Phelsuma can easily go the less favorable direction.
I was on the ball and in the court. I just focused more on comments #3, #4 and #5.
I was on the ball and in the court. I just focused more on comments #3, #4 and #5.
Right on, Frankie,
I agree with all that in your last post.
Shane,
Phelsuma laticauda are definately the most aggressive herps I have ever worked with. Unless you have enormous amounts of space, you just cant keep multiple adults of the same sex together and have all animals be happy. Even the babies will kill each other! A few Phelusma can tolerate small groups, but definately not laticauda.
I agree with all that in your last post.
Shane,
Phelsuma laticauda are definately the most aggressive herps I have ever worked with. Unless you have enormous amounts of space, you just cant keep multiple adults of the same sex together and have all animals be happy. Even the babies will kill each other! A few Phelusma can tolerate small groups, but definately not laticauda.
kenya_1977
New member
I've definitely seen compatibility problems with P. barbouri, but much of it was territory and egg gaurding. As soon as the eggs hatched there was no longer an issue between the two.
A big key to introducing any two day geckos together is never to introduce a new animal into an established terrarium of another animal. Some may get away with this, but it's best to have a totally different set up and introduce both animals at the same time. This way they are on even ground. Doesn't always solve the problem, but sometimes it's a good way to get around it.
A big key to introducing any two day geckos together is never to introduce a new animal into an established terrarium of another animal. Some may get away with this, but it's best to have a totally different set up and introduce both animals at the same time. This way they are on even ground. Doesn't always solve the problem, but sometimes it's a good way to get around it.
Joe,
I have had babies hatch out in the parent's enclosure and co-exist without any signs of aggression from the parents or between the siblings (for a couple of months). I used to raise hatchling/juveniles in the same enclosure and not had signs of aggression. There were squabbles over who gets a particular cricket, but I have seen these squabbles in many of the species of geckos I have kept together.
The enclosure was 12x12x20 inches (LxWxH).
It is always interesting to hear the experiences of others. There are so many potentially different variables in keeping geckos, that experiences can be vastly different for the same species.
It just occured to me, are you talking about P. laticauda angularis? I have read that this sub species is more aggressive than the nominate form. Of course, more aggressive is relative to your experience and your animals. My experience has only been with P. laticauda laticauda and not laticauda angularis.
I have had babies hatch out in the parent's enclosure and co-exist without any signs of aggression from the parents or between the siblings (for a couple of months). I used to raise hatchling/juveniles in the same enclosure and not had signs of aggression. There were squabbles over who gets a particular cricket, but I have seen these squabbles in many of the species of geckos I have kept together.
The enclosure was 12x12x20 inches (LxWxH).
It is always interesting to hear the experiences of others. There are so many potentially different variables in keeping geckos, that experiences can be vastly different for the same species.
It just occured to me, are you talking about P. laticauda angularis? I have read that this sub species is more aggressive than the nominate form. Of course, more aggressive is relative to your experience and your animals. My experience has only been with P. laticauda laticauda and not laticauda angularis.
[/quote]
Yuri,
First, I do not distinguish between subspecies. For me it is an arbitrary way of dividing animals into groups that is based only on the observations of whomever is doing the classifying. If angularis and laticauda can breed together and produce fertile offspring, they are the same species.
But, I did indeed breed the geographic variation known as laticauda laticauda and found them to be ruthelessly aggressive towards each other. Its possible that I just had myself a very mean little group of laticauda that was worse than your typical ones. Who knows??? Maybe it was the way i was keeping them??? I'm not the only one who has experience the extreme violence between laticauda... There are other accounts out there that are similar to mine.
- Also, don't i see you on Phelsumaweb.com under the same name??? Were you the one inquiring about Phelsuma madagascariensis in Florida? Anyhow, I'm pretty sure I like your style... Or am I confusing you with another Phelsuma enthusiast?
First, I do not distinguish between subspecies. For me it is an arbitrary way of dividing animals into groups that is based only on the observations of whomever is doing the classifying. If angularis and laticauda can breed together and produce fertile offspring, they are the same species.
But, I did indeed breed the geographic variation known as laticauda laticauda and found them to be ruthelessly aggressive towards each other. Its possible that I just had myself a very mean little group of laticauda that was worse than your typical ones. Who knows??? Maybe it was the way i was keeping them??? I'm not the only one who has experience the extreme violence between laticauda... There are other accounts out there that are similar to mine.
- Also, don't i see you on Phelsumaweb.com under the same name??? Were you the one inquiring about Phelsuma madagascariensis in Florida? Anyhow, I'm pretty sure I like your style... Or am I confusing you with another Phelsuma enthusiast?
Yuri,
I just went to the Phelsumaweb.com forum and there is a new person that just joined from Missouri in the "Introduction" part of the forum. This guy named John talks about how he just got into Phelsuma with some standingi, lineata, and laticauda. Here is how the first reply to his post looks:
"hey John
first welcome to this forum offcourse!!nice te hear that you are increasing your collection of Phelsuma's. let me warn you for your trio of P laticauda laticauda, I don't know what the age is of that trio, but normaly they are very territorial and the can start fighting till dead. so be warned and don't hesitate to post!! "
Check it out for yourself -
- Just a little example of how other people have had problems with laticauda's unmatched aggression.
I just went to the Phelsumaweb.com forum and there is a new person that just joined from Missouri in the "Introduction" part of the forum. This guy named John talks about how he just got into Phelsuma with some standingi, lineata, and laticauda. Here is how the first reply to his post looks:
"hey John
first welcome to this forum offcourse!!nice te hear that you are increasing your collection of Phelsuma's. let me warn you for your trio of P laticauda laticauda, I don't know what the age is of that trio, but normaly they are very territorial and the can start fighting till dead. so be warned and don't hesitate to post!! "
Check it out for yourself -
- Just a little example of how other people have had problems with laticauda's unmatched aggression.
Wow, I guess I have had two really compatible pairs then. Both pairs would have eggs incubating and hatching in the enclosure without signs of aggression. I always keep one or two Sansiviera plants in the enclosure as well as bamboo and cork tubes. Maybe, it was too dense and they were able to have their own territories established. I also had two separate basking spots, one hotter than the other. The hatchlings were almost always within the Sansiviera tangle, and often hard to see unless I spent time looking for them.
What size tank do you keep yours in and what plants and perches do you keep in yours?
I have no doubt that some experience aggression with laticauda.
What size tank do you keep yours in and what plants and perches do you keep in yours?
I have no doubt that some experience aggression with laticauda.
I think you hit it right on the head when you talk about having multiple basking sites and territories. Also a densly planted enclosure provides visual barriers and is good for adding surface area and hiding spots. Making sure there are numerous places to access food, shelter, heat, ect... are keys to housing more than one pair of Phelsuma in the same enclosure. A little space is nice, too. I had mine in a 20 gallon high tank. There was only ever one male in there (i would hate to have seen what would have happened had there been more) and I tried to do multiple females. At one point both females were gravid and one of them, harrassed the other to death. It was a beginners mistake, but it still haunts me that I didn't recognize the need to separate them before it was too late.
After a while, and with the adults in pairs of 1.1 per cage, I started getting lots of babies. I did raise them in the same enclosures sometimes, but ALWAYS the larger ones would beat up the smaller ones and prevent them from basking under the UV lights or getting to food.
Maybe some laticauda are more aggressive than others. Truthfully, I would be surprised if that were not the case. My grandis vary in aggressiveness considerably. They each have their own distinct temperments.
Anyhow, thanks for the chat!
After a while, and with the adults in pairs of 1.1 per cage, I started getting lots of babies. I did raise them in the same enclosures sometimes, but ALWAYS the larger ones would beat up the smaller ones and prevent them from basking under the UV lights or getting to food.
Maybe some laticauda are more aggressive than others. Truthfully, I would be surprised if that were not the case. My grandis vary in aggressiveness considerably. They each have their own distinct temperments.
Anyhow, thanks for the chat!