Little ID problem- C. brevipalmatus

R

Robin/ger

New member
Hello,


In summer 06 i've bought a female Cyrtodactylus brevipalmatus(pic three)- now i thought i got a male(pic 2)- but it is looking different for me.




Can someone help me with this geckos? Are there such differences between colouration? Perhaps dif. local forms?

Best regards

Robin
 
Bowfinger

Bowfinger

New member
Those both actually look very different than C. elok I keep and both different from each other. I wish we had better information to go by on that.
 
S

slygecko

New member
Have you guys hit the literature for descriptions, keys, etc? If you don't have easy access, I can try to find some good stuff for you. Those are great looking geckos :)

Cheers,
Nick
 
Bowfinger

Bowfinger

New member
slygecko said:
Have you guys hit the literature for descriptions, keys, etc? If you don't have easy access, I can try to find some good stuff for you. Those are great looking geckos :)

Cheers,
Nick
Click to expand...

I would love to see that information when you have the time.
 
S

slygecko

New member
Bowfinger said:
I would love to see that information when you have the time.
Click to expand...

Sure. So, brevipalmatus and elok for starters. Any other species? Gimme a week or so and I'll see what I can turn up.

Cheers,
Nick
 
Bowfinger

Bowfinger

New member
If you don't mind, C. pulchellus and C. intermedius as well. Those are the less understood cyrtodactylus look alikes so far.
 
S

slygecko

New member
Re: Thank you

Well, heres the first little tidbit of useful info I have dug up. In

A New Species of Cyrtodactylus from the Nicobar Islands, India. I. Das. 1997. Journal of Herpetology. 31(3).

There is a table listing a differences in a couple traits between a range of species. It lists pulchellus as having a max SVL of 165 mm while intermedius only has 80.7 mm. Pulchellus also has only 35 mid-ventrals while intermedius has 40-50.
The differences between elok and brevipalmatus are slight. 67.5 svl in elok and 72 in brev. Both have 40-44 mid-ventrals.

I will keep digging for useful stuff. You can PM me for a copy of this paper.

Another note, the species described in this paper is named after my herp club advisor at Cornell, Kraig Adler. That is very awesome :)

Cheers,
Nick
 
S

slygecko

New member
I found two papers with large tables of characters of many Cyrtodactylus species from the Sunda Shelf region. Bust out your magnifying lens, it's scale countin' time. PM me with your email for the papers.

Cyrtodactyluskey.JPG


Source: L. Lee Grismer. 2005. New Species of Bent-Toed Gecko (Cyrtodactylus Gray 1827) from Pulau Aur, Johor, West Malaysia. Journal of Herpetology, Vol. 39, No. 3, pp. 424–432.

Cheers,
Nick
 
S

slygecko

New member
Re: Thank you

I've found the reference for what I think is the species description of Cyrtodactylus elok. However, its a journal we actually don't have here. I'm still working on tracking it down, I have to try Dr. Adler's library and the interlibrary loan system next. If anyone else has the resources to look, the reference is:

DRING, JULIAN CHRISTOPHER MARK. 1979. Amphibians and reptiles from northern Trengganu, Malaysia, with descriptions of two new geckos: Cnemaspis and Cyrtodactylus. Bull. British Mus. nat. Hist. (Zool.) 34: 181-241.

Another potentially very useful source could be Aaron Bauer's recent works. I can't find them anywhere.

Bauer, A.M. Seven new species of Cyrtodactylus (Squamata: Gekkonidae) with a key to the species of Myanmar (Burma). Proc. Calif. Acad. Sci. 54:463-498.

Bauer, A.M. 2002. Two new species of Cyrtodactylus (Squamata: Gekkonidae) from Myanmar. Proc. California Acad. Sci. 53:75-88.

Bauer, A.M., Pauwels, O.S.G., and Chanhome, L. 2002. A New Species of cave-dwelling Cyrtodactylus (Squamata: Gekkonidae) from Thailand. The Natural History Journal of Chulalongkorn University 2(2):19-29.

This literature search is fun. It's a good way to learn about these neat species when I don't have much hope of getting any anytime soon. I was tossing around an idea that could help keepers of this genera (and others). What about creating some sort of database of all these useful papers? So that anyone with these questions can look up the keys they need, and so on. I'd love to discuss this with some of you advanced keepers. Let me know.

Cheers,
Nick
 
S

slygecko

New member
Thanks, Matthias! That looks like a good work there. I may track it down so I can read the rest anyways. Would you happen to know where to find the first description of C. brevipalmatus, too?

Cheers,
Nick
 
V

vierfleck

New member
Hello,

@ Nick:

Gymnodactylus brevipalmatus Smith,M.A.(1923):Notes on reptiles and batrachiens from Siam and Indo-China(No.2) - J.Nat.Hist.Soc. Siam,London,6(1):47-53
Terra typica: "Khao Luang,altitude 750 metres,Nakon Sritamarat Mountains,Peninsular Siam."

In a Book "Reptilien und Amphibien Südostasiens" of Manthey/Grossmann is written,that the only difference between elok and brevipalmatus is,that brevipalmatus has femoral pores and elok has it not.

Thats all Information i have.

cheers

Matthias
 
Bowfinger

Bowfinger

New member
Very good information guys, now its time for me to go to the basics and figure out these differences. I have gotten by on pure experience, but when it comes down to this scientific lingo I can get lost. Anyone have a good source for learning about femoral pores, pre-anal, grooves and all that going on in the area. My problem is I get the numbers of what I am looking for, but can not tell if it is a pore or scale and/or a scale that looks like a pore.
 
S

slygecko

New member
So, have you guys made any progress in confirming identifications? Did these papers help at all? Shane, I couldn't find any good references online, but I'll try to scan some relevant material out of herp textbooks if I can get to it soon.

Cheers,
Nick
 
Bowfinger

Bowfinger

New member
I apreciate the help, though I think it might not be in text. I am starting to think there has not been enough study in the wild to get good firm information. Hopefully there is work being done as we speak before there are missing links due to development of their habitat...if not and most likely already altered by humans.
 
Bowfinger

Bowfinger

New member
I recomend everyone keep what you have and only trade with those who most likely have the same local. I have various cyrtos from different locals and do not cross them in hopes that better future information will give me subs if anything without ever being crossed by lack of information.
 
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