elok vs. brevipalmatus part 2 /close ups

[Bowfinger]

Ok, I am on hold about brevipalmatus in this group, but I do still find obvious traits dissimilar. Does anyone see the difference in these two males, and is it significant?

 

[WildEyeReptiles]

Try to post pics of these two from the top (together maybe?), also post some of the females you have that are different. It might help.

-L

 

[Bowfinger]

I will be working up a more detailed post with females included and many close ups to see scale differences on back as well. Just have to get some free time here. I will mostly focus on vents and back scales and take snout to vent lengths.

 

[WildEyeReptiles]

What lens did you use for that shot? 60mm?

 

[Bowfinger]

yes the 60mm macro. I have to figure out how to pull more detail messing with the stop speed if possible???, otherwise consider other options as I am not happy with my results just yet. After I get bored with trying to figure it out myself I will pull the book out. I use a new(so its clear n clean) 9"circ.x6"tall clear tub to keep them in, lay on the floor under the coffee table w. them on the edge and snap away till I get good shots.

 

[Leah]

Does anyone else have a terrible time logging in? I had to make a new user name!

Anyway, I took pics of the undersides of mine to look at, but I am 99% positive all of mine are Elok even without looking at the pores.

 

[Bowfinger]

I wish I could see femoral pores on a brevipalmatus to know what I am looking for...do femoral pores run only on the legs or are they at times just in vent area; what determines a femoral pore and can they be microscopic?? We need to get some confirmed brevipalmatus from Thailand, as elok is not from there and that might help.

 

[WildEyeReptiles]

Brevis should have enlarged femoral scales (regardless of the pores for this purpose) and elok should not. From your pics it would appear that neither have enlarged femoral scales(the top one might, I cant tell from the photo). Its possible you are looking at a locality difference.

 

[Bowfinger]

I also did some caliper measurements of SVL lengths and find at least two females well past data for both elok and brevipalmatus, one at 84mm and the other female could not get her head strait but she is slightly larger. The data listed for elok= 56-68mm and for brevipalmatus=64-73mm. I am really confused now.

Of course I am doing all this very sparingly as my time is focused on other projects for work right now. Thats why I am jumping around...I see a gecko laid out strait I go measure, then back to work.

 

[WildEyeReptiles]

You have to keep in mind that the species descriptions dont normally take into account various locality differences. Size could very well be a locality difference.

 

[Badger]

Check up your brevipalmatus

The most reliable difference of C.elok from C.brevipalmatus (as Leah has quite right noticed) is the absence of enlarged femoral scales. At a male of C.elok it looks as below:

and we can see a similar picture at C.consobrinus:

I have not a foto of preanal region of C.brevipalmatus. All "brevipalmatus" received from my supplier several days ago was detached by me as C.elok after closer examination :sad:. But I do not lose a hope as he speaks that planning to get the "another form of brevipalmatus". Really I was upset a little as I like this guys:

According with L. Lee Grismer (2005) C.brevipalmatus has not only enlarged femoral scales but also a small number (6-7) of femoral pores. But I don't know how many rows of enlarged femoral scales it has, also are femoral pores present at both sexes or (more possibly) at males only. Depending on this, the preanal region of C.brevipalmatus may be:
with many rows of enlarged femoral scales as at C.quadrivirgatus (with exсeption that C.brevipalmatus unlike C.quadrivirgatus has preanal and femoral pores):

or with one row of enlarged femoral scales as at C.pulchellus (with exception that the preanal groove is absent at both C. brevipalmatus and C.elok):

It would be interesting if somebody who keep the "true" C. brevipalmatus would provide photos of their preanal region. As I have understood from Bowfinger's photos at the beginning of this post he also keep only C.elok. And I am too. Who is the next?

 

[Uroplatus]

I have found this guys at the web! C.brevipalmatus.

¢Í¹éÍÁ¶ÇÒÂÍÒÅÑ áÅФÇÒÁÀÑ¡´Õ á´è ÊÁà´ç¨¾ÃÐà¨éÒ¾Õè¹Ò§à¸Í à¨éÒ¿éÒ¡ÑÅÂÒ³ÔÇѲ¹Ò ¡ÃÁËÅǧ¹ÃÒ¸ÔÇÒÊÃÒª¹¤ÃÔ¹·Ãìè - siamensis.org

µÒÁËÒÀÒ¾ Gekkonidae ÊØ´¢Íº¿éÒ

Further this site:
Goatee Toni's Photo Gallery - Geckos

 

[Bowfinger]

Thanks for the information. Montri is doing some new work on the genus, so hopefully we will see description updates and divisions soon.

 

[Uroplatus]

I used the searchfunction at the board of ¢Í¹éÍÁ¶ÇÒÂÍÒÅÑ áÅФÇÒÁÀÑ¡´Õ á´è ÊÁà´ç¨¾ÃÐà¨éÒ¾Õè¹Ò§à¸Í à¨éÒ¿éÒ¡ÑÅÂÒ³ÔÇѲ¹Ò ¡ÃÁËÅǧ¹ÃÒ¸ÔÇÒÊÃÒª¹¤ÃÔ¹·Ãìè - siamensis.org. Keyword: BREVIPALMATUS.

C.brevipalmatus

Also C.interdigitalis (releated to C.brevipalmatus, look at the tail), rockdweller.