T. microlepis complex
- Thread starter Haroldo
- Start date
aquapimp
New member
I used to get them in frequently when I ran the "reptile room" at a high end pet shop in town. GREAT GENUS! Imports were usually skinny and thirsty, but would usually rebound with a 'lil love:blushing:. I hatched out a couple T.m.microlepis (at least I believe thats what they were) in addition to T. keyserlingii and roborowskii. Babies of all are downright lunatics!:evil:
Geitje
New member
Word of wisdom for the day -
Get these if you can....they are from Pakistan and the US has a trade embargo with them and therefore all Pakistani imports (T. micro, T. keyserlingii, Agamura and others) are not coming in.
Also, do not keep T. microlepis very hot. They do not fare as well like other Teratoscincus at higher temps.
Jon
Get these if you can....they are from Pakistan and the US has a trade embargo with them and therefore all Pakistani imports (T. micro, T. keyserlingii, Agamura and others) are not coming in.
Also, do not keep T. microlepis very hot. They do not fare as well like other Teratoscincus at higher temps.
Jon
aquapimp
New member
I can concur with Jon... these have all but vanished from wholesale lists (reptiles often accompany tropical fish on availability offerings). The last time they were offered with regularity was in the mid to late 90's, I believe. Can you back this up, Jon? I like this genus!
PS: I can recall ordering "frog eyed geckos" in mix and match "20 lots" for $15 a head. What an insult!
PS: I can recall ordering "frog eyed geckos" in mix and match "20 lots" for $15 a head. What an insult!
Last edited:
Palex134
New member
Haroldo,
great T. microlepis ssp. Very nice patterning on T. m. microlepis
Jon,
Great comment. I think there should be a larger focus on those imported species that there is a good chance will not be around in the near future, over say species being captively bred heavily in the states already. Id love to hear more on the subject, perhaps in another thread?
Aquapimp,
sounds like a pretty impressive petstore. I always thought T. microlepis would be harder to acclimate, but I have no experience with the genus. Great story.
great T. microlepis ssp. Very nice patterning on T. m. microlepis
Jon,
Great comment. I think there should be a larger focus on those imported species that there is a good chance will not be around in the near future, over say species being captively bred heavily in the states already. Id love to hear more on the subject, perhaps in another thread?
Aquapimp,
sounds like a pretty impressive petstore. I always thought T. microlepis would be harder to acclimate, but I have no experience with the genus. Great story.
Geitje
New member
The last Pakistani imports that I remember were between aabout 1995-1999. There were several Teratoscincus that came in during that time (I got a lot of them from I.D.B.). Since then, their numbers have steadily declined in captivity. There are a few being captive bred, but like most Teratoscincus (I think roborowski is the only true/consistent exception) they only lay 2-3 (4 if you're very lucky!) clutches of eggs/year. Most people apparently do not breed their Teratoscincus very well on a consistent basis. There are some breeders that do, however they are few. Couple these two elements and you've got the next recipe for extinction in captivity. One day we'll be kicking ourselves for not giving them the special attention they deserve. I'm dumbfounded at seeing imported T. przewalskii and T. roborowski coming in at $18-30ea. Factor this special import price into the "standardizing prices of geckos" thread.
Peace out,
Jon
Peace out,
Jon
Haroldo
New member
Nice work Jon, I'll be chatting you up for some pointers on getting these guys to breed on a regular basis. The one in this last photo, isn't that what we call "mackrenensis"? Do you happen to have pics of both the nominate form and the mackrenensis? I believe I have both forms due to pattern differences and size overall, but need additional verification from an experienced breeder.
I really wish I was around in this hobby 10 or even 5 years ago. The species that I search for seem to have come in by the boatload, now half of them can't even be bought! It is unfortunate that many of that era failed to see the value (not monetary) in this genus. But it is even worse that many in my generation seek out these neat geckos for all the wrong reasons. I just hope to be part of the solution...
Out 5-stacks
-Harold
I really wish I was around in this hobby 10 or even 5 years ago. The species that I search for seem to have come in by the boatload, now half of them can't even be bought! It is unfortunate that many of that era failed to see the value (not monetary) in this genus. But it is even worse that many in my generation seek out these neat geckos for all the wrong reasons. I just hope to be part of the solution...
Out 5-stacks
-Harold
aquapimp
New member
Palex, The shop was "Doolittles" The owners were hard to work for, and stuck in 1972, but their son and I hit it off well. We really transformed that place into a "zoo you could buy". It was a definite luxury to spend their money to fuel my insatiable curiosity! There was no internet yet really, so I would eagerly scan the faxes as they came through from the wholesalers. I still remember seeing "SATANIC LEAFTAIL GECKO" for the first time on a list (no pics!). I had to have them!
Does anyone remembers Oceanic "Lizard Lounges"? I can't imagine anyplace having more of them than Doolittle's. We had about 100 naturalistic display for EVERYTHING, even the tarantulas were in really cool set-ups!
They had an amazing selection of rare parrots, too.
Great training grounds for a "faunal crackhead"!
Does anyone remembers Oceanic "Lizard Lounges"? I can't imagine anyplace having more of them than Doolittle's. We had about 100 naturalistic display for EVERYTHING, even the tarantulas were in really cool set-ups!
They had an amazing selection of rare parrots, too.
Great training grounds for a "faunal crackhead"!
Geitje
New member
Harold,
I think that the new book on reptiles of Pakistan by M. S. Khan (Krueger publishing, but rather expensive book!) should have the info. and photos that you're looking for to distinguish the differences between these two alledged sub-species. I do have photos of both, but not handy. I might be able to track down digital shots, but I fear that some of them are on slides. The form with the clearer cross-banding can tend to be a bit smaller, whereas the ones with a netting pattern can be larger. I have see a few exceptions though.
As humans we all normally learn from our mistakes. In this hobby, not all of us do - as many people come and go and just do not understand the trends and history of this hobby. What you've stated should be a blueprint for us to gauge our decisions by and not "dump" species just because they appear to lose their value. The "fly in the ointment" is when you work your butt off to breed something that's not so easy to breed, like a Teratoscincus, and then an importer throws them up on Kingsnake for $18 each. As a breeder, we make weighted decisions based on our own list of criteria for continued keeping in our terrariums. When the system fails, we throw em out. I'm guilty, most who have been around for years are too. I've seen countless rarities come through this hobby - a few return, many do not. I see the same thing happening with Teratoscincus przewalskii right now in this hobby. How many people on this forum have actually bred this species? With a photo or something for proof? I've seen no more than 6 c.b. offspring offered from this species in 27 damned years.
We should learn from these mistakes and implement safeguards from further species "slipping through cracks in the floor". Guess that's why I keep about 250 species of geckos presently.....I do not want to see the crack close with so many interesting animals falling through. I've seen it happen, and I will continue doing everything I can to keep them around and bring more in - when possible. What if the ability to import/export in the US was closed tomorrow. What would happen to values then? I guarantee you that in 2-3 years time, Aussie geckos would be in the dollar dumpster and Teratoscincus (and other not so easy to breed species) would escalate in value. Even things like Tokays, flying geckos and other over-looked forms would bounce up rather quickly. Look at Rhaco. trachyrhynchus. What a bizarre market and misplaced value. I saw them last year for $10,000 each?????? They're not very attractive at all when compared to other Rhacodactylus, they're definitely NOT handleable - they're crash test dummies that richochet off everything in their terrariums when startled, and in general just look boring and dumb.
Jon
I think that the new book on reptiles of Pakistan by M. S. Khan (Krueger publishing, but rather expensive book!) should have the info. and photos that you're looking for to distinguish the differences between these two alledged sub-species. I do have photos of both, but not handy. I might be able to track down digital shots, but I fear that some of them are on slides. The form with the clearer cross-banding can tend to be a bit smaller, whereas the ones with a netting pattern can be larger. I have see a few exceptions though.
As humans we all normally learn from our mistakes. In this hobby, not all of us do - as many people come and go and just do not understand the trends and history of this hobby. What you've stated should be a blueprint for us to gauge our decisions by and not "dump" species just because they appear to lose their value. The "fly in the ointment" is when you work your butt off to breed something that's not so easy to breed, like a Teratoscincus, and then an importer throws them up on Kingsnake for $18 each. As a breeder, we make weighted decisions based on our own list of criteria for continued keeping in our terrariums. When the system fails, we throw em out. I'm guilty, most who have been around for years are too. I've seen countless rarities come through this hobby - a few return, many do not. I see the same thing happening with Teratoscincus przewalskii right now in this hobby. How many people on this forum have actually bred this species? With a photo or something for proof? I've seen no more than 6 c.b. offspring offered from this species in 27 damned years.
We should learn from these mistakes and implement safeguards from further species "slipping through cracks in the floor". Guess that's why I keep about 250 species of geckos presently.....I do not want to see the crack close with so many interesting animals falling through. I've seen it happen, and I will continue doing everything I can to keep them around and bring more in - when possible. What if the ability to import/export in the US was closed tomorrow. What would happen to values then? I guarantee you that in 2-3 years time, Aussie geckos would be in the dollar dumpster and Teratoscincus (and other not so easy to breed species) would escalate in value. Even things like Tokays, flying geckos and other over-looked forms would bounce up rather quickly. Look at Rhaco. trachyrhynchus. What a bizarre market and misplaced value. I saw them last year for $10,000 each?????? They're not very attractive at all when compared to other Rhacodactylus, they're definitely NOT handleable - they're crash test dummies that richochet off everything in their terrariums when startled, and in general just look boring and dumb.
Jon
alecfeldman
New member
Teratoscincus geckos
Thats some passionate stuff there Jon. I could not agree more. As you know, I LOVE all the Frog Eyes. I keep all I can get my hands on. A perfect example of what you are talking about are my Teratoscincus scincus that were just $30 a couple of years ago. Let someone try to find some now (the Russian ones). Thank goodness you told me not to sell them a while back. I think all the frog eyed geckos are sooooo much more interesting than most of the species offered. You can watch them for hours, without getting bored. They are a challenge to breed or even TO REMOVE THOSE DAMN EGGS FROM THE CAGE WITHOUT CRACKING THEM! BUT, when you finally see the results, its AWESOME! I ALSO could not believe my eyes at those gecko discounters selling robowrskii and the przewalskii for that little. I bought a s**t load of them. I know that they won't be around for long and I dont want them all to fall into 14 year old hands, where they are most definately doomed. People should realize the value of what they have. I fear alot of these sellers, just sell low to avoid all the deaths looming around the corner. Some of my favorites are still the cheapies. The stenos, the coleonyx, etc... You can't even compare those geckos for personality. They are so unafraid and interesting. Anyways, I could go on forever but I think my point is clear.
Thats some passionate stuff there Jon. I could not agree more. As you know, I LOVE all the Frog Eyes. I keep all I can get my hands on. A perfect example of what you are talking about are my Teratoscincus scincus that were just $30 a couple of years ago. Let someone try to find some now (the Russian ones). Thank goodness you told me not to sell them a while back. I think all the frog eyed geckos are sooooo much more interesting than most of the species offered. You can watch them for hours, without getting bored. They are a challenge to breed or even TO REMOVE THOSE DAMN EGGS FROM THE CAGE WITHOUT CRACKING THEM! BUT, when you finally see the results, its AWESOME! I ALSO could not believe my eyes at those gecko discounters selling robowrskii and the przewalskii for that little. I bought a s**t load of them. I know that they won't be around for long and I dont want them all to fall into 14 year old hands, where they are most definately doomed. People should realize the value of what they have. I fear alot of these sellers, just sell low to avoid all the deaths looming around the corner. Some of my favorites are still the cheapies. The stenos, the coleonyx, etc... You can't even compare those geckos for personality. They are so unafraid and interesting. Anyways, I could go on forever but I think my point is clear.
Mikhail F. Bagaturov
New member
Hi Alec and all!
As for T. scincus I believe we with Rustam have no problem to provide someone who is interested with some even in some numbers. On the other end, it is also very interesting subspecies T.s. rustamowi are also known from one local confident area..
These are very rare, but soimetimes (once in several years) may be available for seriouse swap/trade if someone is interested in.
If Rustam is able he can post a picture of this subspecies, but some people think it is a distinct species taxon, and it's highly possible so.
As for T. scincus I believe we with Rustam have no problem to provide someone who is interested with some even in some numbers. On the other end, it is also very interesting subspecies T.s. rustamowi are also known from one local confident area..
These are very rare, but soimetimes (once in several years) may be available for seriouse swap/trade if someone is interested in.
If Rustam is able he can post a picture of this subspecies, but some people think it is a distinct species taxon, and it's highly possible so.