[Tokay Gecko]How smart they are?

[Negator]

How smart they are? i mean crocodile-like - pure instincts and nothing else, or they actually can recognize different humans, act creatively etc? I wll be thankful if someone would provide some stories of their geckos behavior in support of their cleverness\stupidity.

 

[Ingo]

Depends on how you define smart. Of course they do have a reptilian brain and follow the restrictions of this.
So they will never feel befriended to their owner, play or love handling.
But still they have some amazing abilities. Above all, they learn to know each other personally and devlop a stron pair bond. If a female of a bonded pair dies, the male searxches and calls endlessly for her. Even if a nice replacemtn female is made available. Also they obviously remember "tokay faces" for a long time as I conclude from their behaviour after withdrawal of cagemates and reintroduction of the same sepcimen after several years.
Also they can learn to soem extent to differentiater between "known" and "unknown" humans independent from their respective clothing.

 

[audio]

i've found that if you pet them when you hold them they eventually find that enjoyable, but they still don't really know how to react. mine would perk it's head up to enforce my petting it, but then later it would go back to running/biting

i'd say it's mostly instinct, and very defensive instinct at that

 

[Ingo]

Nice case of anthropomorphistic interpretation of stress behaviour.
Tokays are not equipped to "enjoy" petting.
They can learn to tolerate it, but it will stay a stressfull procedure with no benefit at all for the animal.

Ingo

 

[audio]

.....what???

just politely say i was wrong, damn

 

['stoph]

The fact both parents will protect their eggs/offspring is interesting as well.

 

[audio]

i think that'd just be instinctive though, they don't know not to damage the eggs

 

[invertkurt]

There's no reason why reptiles can't enjoy things. Technically speaking, birds are reptiles and many birds are as smart or smarter than most mammals. Some invertebrates are also incredibly smart. I can't speak on gecko intelligence, but turtles and some lizards may be roughly as smart as many small mammals. Any social animal has some level of 'smarts'. The big problem with discussing animal intelligence is that you can't just ask them. I have personally experienced anecdotal evidence that turtles recognize their owners and consider them part of their social group. I have also seen certain lizards recognize sounds, sights, and smells and connect them to positive experiences.

But as far as a tokay gecko goes... It probably falls somewhere above non-social reptiles and below highly social reptiles. So... Smarter than a worm snake but not as smart as a giant land turtle or an alligator.

 

[cw777]

My Tokay Gecko either likes me and/or is fascinated by movement and her environment. At night (she is noctrunal) she sits in her terrarium and stares through the glass at me, seeming to focus on my eyes. If I move my feet, she looks there. She also likes watching television, obviously fascinated by the color and movement. My late wife used to half-jokingly say that Flappy's favorite program was Animal Planet.
It sure seems that Flappy recognizes individuals - Lisa could pick her up and pet her, but Flappy will only let me move her to the other side of the cage, gets squirmy if I try to lift her out. She is one of the rare Tokays that eventually became tame. Can Tokays connect in some way to humans? It sure seems so.

 

[billewicz]

My Tokay Gecko either likes me and/or is fascinated by movement and her environment. At night (she is noctrunal) she sits in her terrarium and stares through the glass at me, seeming to focus on my eyes. If I move my feet, she looks there. She also likes watching television, obviously fascinated by the color and movement. My late wife used to half-jokingly say that Flappy's favorite program was Animal Planet.
It sure seems that Flappy recognizes individuals - Lisa could pick her up and pet her, but Flappy will only let me move her to the other side of the cage, gets squirmy if I try to lift her out. She is one of the rare Tokays that eventually became tame. Can Tokays connect in some way to humans? It sure seems so.

For the most part, you are observing their hunting behavior. They are laser focused on movement. They also have a feeding response to sounds, like me banging the crickets out of the plastic pitcher, and smell, like the smell of the crickets and especially of the dusting powder. They could care lerr about me other than the fact I bring food. And so they watch, and watch, and watch.

 

[Kita]

Tokays can learn how to wedge open sliding glass tank doors, which I have experienced personally and this individual was able to video his doing so.

They do recognize common handlers by smell/licking as well.

 

[billewicz]

Pushing the slider open is awesome! I've left door latches unlocked by accident and they will test the door to see if it will open. Once out, I've left their enclosure door open and found them back inside by morning, sitting in their usual hiding place.

 

[Aimless]

completely cool.

and I'm firmly convinced that they're smarter than most of the other geckos I've kept or known.

the egg thing was posted a long time ago, but in my mind guarding the eggs and offspring is more like intelligence and less like instinct. many gecko species cannibalize eggs and/or babies.

 

[Aimless]

the question is, do they behave the same toward another pair's eggs or hatchlings? wouldn't that be an interesting thing to test?

 

[billewicz]

Female Tokay will eat the eggs from another unrelated female. Males will eat any hatchling that is not his.

Communal nesting has been observed in the wild, and in my reptile rooms. I usually have a loose male in each room to clean-up escaped crickets. In one room I had a trio of sibling females escape their enclosure. Some months later we had hatchling running all over the place. I discovered their egg laying site which had over 50 eggs. Some had already hatched obviously. When I revisited the site from time to time, any one of the females or the male and one of the females were on either side of the multi-rows of eggs.

Conversely, over the years I',e tried a couple of different unrelated females in a room and in large enclosures and they have always eaten each others' eggs.

Also, if you have a freshly paired female lay eggs that were from held sperm due to a previous breeding by another male, the new male will eat the hatchling.

 

[Aimless]

thank you for the detailed information! yes, I'd say that's beyond mere instinct. I can see evolutionary advantage, of course, but that's a very subtle series of interactions.

 

[zuper8]

I loved going through this thread and seeing what experienced keepers say. Because for me, this is the first reptile I have ever interacted with, and I am learning new things about her every day. Definitely a thinking creature. I can see her rationalize things.

I have also observed a Pavlovian response to me pumping the pressure mister. When I am pumping the mister, I am planning to open the side door and mist the enclosure. She will march right on over to where the door opens waiting for the inevitable (wanting out of course). She responds to the visual, as well as the sound alone when I purposely hide myself from her view.

She's always watching me, even if I'm just laying perfectly still in bed watching a movie. She sits right out in the open and just stares at me lol! It's really cute, and I wonder why, since there is no movement coming from me. She's also not making any effort to conceal herself.

Also, sometimes she will wait by the door in case I might open it. When I do, she walks up a vine that I have slanted by the door, gets really close to my face, and licks to smell me. She will also sometimes look right at my face, licking her upper jaw in front repeatedly. I wonder what this means? I have actually tried to imitate these behaviors, and she will do it back. Sometimes when I imitate her, she gets really interested and gets even closer to my face. A very brave animal, and she at least has the mental facilities to significantly alter her former view of humans as predators.

 

[billewicz]

:biggrinavlovian yes. Licking is a sign they are too dry. I suspect she is anticipating the misting. Watching is how they hunt. She's looking for movement.

I'm glad you are enjoying your Tokay interaction.:biggrin:

 

[zuper8]

she definitely doesn't like it when I mist her directly, she tries to avoid it. She rarely drinks in front of me. She does try to walk out the door when I open it.

How come she is watching my head for extended periods when I am producing no movement? Is she hunting me? If she can tell it's me when I'm opening her cage, I'm pretty sure she could tell it's me 7 feet away in the bed. I just don't understand why she is fixated on my motionless head when she is supposed to be "hunting" meaning looking for movement.

and yes she is a delightful creature. never imagined I would get this much enjoyment out of the experience.

 

[billewicz]

She could also be making sure you're not going to eat her. Her instinct is to consider a larger 'animal', as predator. (And no, I'm not insinuating that you are either.;-))

And you are still the food provider. So some association with your face and presence means possibly getting fed.