never again

[leogirl16]

i sold a male albino leo to women a few months ago. she was looking for a leo because a nephew of hers had a few, she thought the were cute and wanted one, so a girl i used to go to school with asked me about the leos i was selling, i told her the ones i was selling, i gave the girl my number and told her to have the lady call me if she had and questions. she told the women the choices of leos she could pick from, the women picked the male albino, she called me the next day and asked me a few questions, i threw in a few things like sand is not a good substrate for leos cause it causes impaction, etc. she said ok and that she would go to petco and get a few things for the leo and be by the next day to pick it up. she came by and picked it up. well here it is a few months later and yesterday i get told by a friend the girl that knows the lady said that the leo i gave the women was gay because it keeps going after the other leo they have in the tank, and then i get told that there using PINK SAND for substrate! that set me off! 1st of all i told the women the leo was a MALE! 2nd i told her not to use SAND!, and she does it anyway! so shes signing the death wish to the leo! never again will i sell any of my leos, y sell pets, give the person information on the pet, then have them totally ignore wht u said!
what would you guys do in this situation?
should i confront the person violently next time they stop by to see if i have any baby leos?(which i do but i aint giving any to them) or
tell them im not selling anymore leos and not say anything to them about wht i was told?
This really made me extremely PO'd! my first sale of a leo and the person totally ignored wht i told her! so give me ur opinions guys.

 

[SarkkaS]

..and you REALLY don't have any kind of animal welfare/protection in the states? Perhaps Obama will help with that as well. I sure as heck hope that another republican doesn't invade the white house, along with North Korea and Iran. With the way things are going with the Georgia situation (and I don't refer to a southern state in the U.S.), things could really get horrible within a year or two.

Here's what you do:
1. call the lady, ask about how things are going with the leos (the report from that girl can be inaccurate)
2. ask, if you can come over to see the leos, to point out that she has two males
3. go from there


-Sale

 

[Kazska]

Thats so annoying! I'm PO'd for you!!!
I agree with Sarkkas, call and ask how the leos doing, etc. Set her straight!
And let us know what happens.

xxxXXX

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Once you sell an animal to a customer, your rights as a breeder/seller stop there. The only thing really that you can do is not sell to that person again. And honestly, if that bothers you this much, you should stop selling herps altogether now. Because once it's out of your hands, you never know what a customer is going to do with an animal. You can try to get them in the best homes possible. But you can't dictate to people how to deal with their animals once they belong to them.

 

[jabberwock486]

this sums up one of the main gripes i have with the hobby. you can't be profitable and ethical. end of story. you are selling a product. you can't very well screen all customers and even if you could you still can't find the bad apples all the time. this is one of the main problems i have with a market driven by traits and morphs. for every desirable animal how many that lack that trait were produced? same with dogs, cats and birds. most end up in petshops, neglected, rescued or endlessly traded. at the same time there is nothing for you to do. if the woman comes to you again you can talk to her. however yelling at her or "confronting" her could be a bad idea. also it won't solve anything and will only piss her off. how about not selling to people who buy gifts for their kids?? really that is one piece of advise a friend goes by. in fact his store is 18+ and sells only to 18+, will not sell to parents unless they show they know the proper care. i fact he refused to sell to a friend of mine who wanted to buy a bearded dragon for his kid. he just gave the guy a care guide and told him he would be asked if he decided to come back.

ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUPS ARE NO FRIEND TO US!!!! let me make that clear. those f**** can suck my C*** for all i care. i use to be in that crowd until i saw how whacked it is. simply put they would have our hobby banned. in fact this is a stated goal of PETA and PETA was a big part of our local ban on reptiles. they got money, lawyers and crazed fallowers. they don't care about animals, not one bit, they only care for their world view. just like a cult. don't accept or help or work with these people. don't involve them in our hobby. if you want to help animals then become a vet, help with conservation, help with education, help with law enforcement and don't humanize animals. animals are not people, don' think or treat them as such. something about good intentions pave the road to hell....

making laws will not help our hobby, just drive it underground. i hope they day doesn't come that my hobby is the same as growing pot. illegal and underground. if you cry for laws this is what will happen. more so in today's political environment.

 

[Kazska]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Once you sell an animal to a customer, your rights as a breeder/seller stop there. The only thing really that you can do is not sell to that person again. And honestly, if that bothers you this much, you should stop selling herps altogether now. Because once it's out of your hands, you never know what a customer is going to do with an animal. You can try to get them in the best homes possible. But you can't dictate to people how to deal with their animals once they belong to them.

I understand and agree with what you're sating but I feel if you CAN do something about it you should, as long as you're subtle about it.

xxxXXX

 

[SarkkaS]

making laws will not help our hobby, just drive it underground. i hope they day doesn't come that my hobby is the same as growing pot. illegal and underground. if you cry for laws this is what will happen. more so in today's political environment.

What part of animal protection laws hurt the hobby? At least in Finland and many other European countries, they pose no problems to those that treat their animals well. If you treat animals badly, the government can even repossess them and give you a fine.

The kind of laws that will kill the hobby are restrictions to keeping reptiles in general, such as is the downright absurd ban on reptiles in Norway. In some countries you can't keep a simple leo or corn snake without a permit.


-Sale

 

[MattL]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Once you sell an animal to a customer, your rights as a breeder/seller stop there. The only thing really that you can do is not sell to that person again. And honestly, if that bothers you this much, you should stop selling herps altogether now. Because once it's out of your hands, you never know what a customer is going to do with an animal. You can try to get them in the best homes possible. But you can't dictate to people how to deal with their animals once they belong to them.

Agreed.

Matt

P.S. Sand, isn't THAT deadly. But we won't start that. ;-)

 

[leogirl16]

thanx for all ur opinions, yes i understand about once you sell the animal its not yours anymore, so im just going to let it go, because once someone buys an animal its theres to do what ever the want with it, whether its become a pet or a "just for show" animal. but im still going to call and see how hes doing.now i know i went over board on what i said, im new at selling these wonderful animals, and i went into it thinking all people love and respect them, and take the advise of the breeder/seller and put it to good use, but i guess you cant get into something thinking its going to go your way all the time, because its not. once again thank you for all your opinions!

 

[Xanadu1]

I remember when I adopted my cat, there were rules I had to follow as far as her care and I had to sign a contract that I would and wouldn't do certain things. I think that's reasonable. I think I paid $50-$60 for her. Maybe you could talk to this lady and just say something like "I want to make sure I told you about how dangerous sand is and how if you put two males together, they could kill each other."...maybe throw in some other things too. She doesn't have to know you know what's really going on. Then, if you want to continue selling the leos, have people sign a contract. If they can't follow the contract, the leo goes back to you. I don't know how the money would work out...I don't know if it's legal for you to demand the return of the animal without refunding their money.

Also, a friend of mine is an Australian Shepherd breeder. She keeps in touch (by email) with all of the people who buy puppies. They send photos and updates on the dogs and stuff. Maybe you could request that sort of thing from your customers...that way if you see they're on sand or something that isn't right, you can write back and let them know it's a no-no.

Just some ideas. Hope you figure something out...good luck

Heather

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Heather, not to negate your ideas or anything. But keep in mind that there's a big difference between an adoption and a sale. Once you sell something to someone, you can't demand an animal be returned to you. Not even for the well being of the animal. Imagine if the car dealer tried to take your car back because you didn't change the oil often enough! And good luck getting anyone to sign a contract just to get a leo. They can just go to petco/petsmart and buy one with no hassles. But I do agree that there's nothing wrong with politely calling the lady just to check in on the gecko(s) and perhaps offering a little fresh advice.

I remember when I adopted my cat, there were rules I had to follow as far as her care and I had to sign a contract that I would and wouldn't do certain things. I think that's reasonable. I think I paid $50-$60 for her. Maybe you could talk to this lady and just say something like "I want to make sure I told you about how dangerous sand is and how if you put two males together, they could kill each other."...maybe throw in some other things too. She doesn't have to know you know what's really going on. Then, if you want to continue selling the leos, have people sign a contract. If they can't follow the contract, the leo goes back to you. I don't know how the money would work out...I don't know if it's legal for you to demand the return of the animal without refunding their money.

Also, a friend of mine is an Australian Shepherd breeder. She keeps in touch (by email) with all of the people who buy puppies. They send photos and updates on the dogs and stuff. Maybe you could request that sort of thing from your customers...that way if you see they're on sand or something that isn't right, you can write back and let them know it's a no-no.

Just some ideas. Hope you figure something out...good luck

Heather

 

[SarkkaS]

Imagine if the car dealer tried to take your car back because you didn't change the oil often enough!

The only difference is that the gecko suffers, the car doesn't. (And I don't think there's any activist groups that fight for vehicular rights and such, either.. )

First, you should try the polite and nice way. And since there are no protection laws in effect, that's all you can do.


-Sale

 

[Dyesub Dave]

That sucks but I agree with Ethan in that there's not much you can do.

I have been selling my baby veiled chameleons for the last couple of months. I tell people that are purchasing these animals the required and proper care for them. I give them advice from my experience and urge them to call or email me if they have any problems or questions. I also tell them of several websites and/or forums that they can get husbandry information from and get timely answers to their questions.

I would definitely feel bad if one of these cute little reptiles were neglected but in reality there's not much I can do after they've been sold. I've given all the information I can, offered my continued support if there are questions and pointed them towards further information. As far as I'm concerned I've done the best that I can to give these animals good homes. If I kept them all here I'd have too many and they wouldn't get the care they needed.

The only other thing that I try to do is if I realize that the person has no clue on how to look after them and I get that feeling that they may not be well cared for I try to discourage them from starting with this animal. I over emphasize the amount of care needed and maintenance and such and suggest perhaps an easier starter reptile for them.

At one point I also emailed many of the people I sold them too (as I'd kept their email addresses) to see how their new pets were doing and was happy to get positive responses from all of them.

Dyesub Dave. :biggrin: